How to Build a Competency Model w/Heather Burright
Episode Overview
Dive into a compelling discussion with Heather Burright, founder of Skill Masters Market, in this week's episode of Making Better. Heather enlightens us with her experiences shifting from the national nonprofit space to becoming a consultant. We explore the importance of learning in nonprofits, the challenges of talent development, and the innovative use of competency models. With Heather's expertise, we learn how nonprofits manage to foster behavior change aligned with strategic goals despite limited resources. If you're intrigued by the intersection of talent growth and nonprofit evolution, this insightful dialogue is not to be missed.
About Heather Burright
Heather Burright, chief consultant and founder of Skill Masters Market, built her business from the ground up with a heart to serve people. From competency models to custom training to additional wrap-around supports, Skill Masters Market is where customized instructional design meets change management to give your people the training your mission deserves and the tools to implement it effectively. In short, Heather helps nonprofit and association teams create the exact training and leadership development solutions they need to create behavior change. You can find her on LinkedIn and her podcast Learning for Good.
You can connect with Heather through:
Skill Masters Market: https://www.skillmastersmarket.com/
Full Transcript
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Heather Burright [00:00:00]:
It usually takes multiple conversations, multiple questions to get to the real impact because people do have a certain perspective on what training is. So if I say, you know, you, you brought me in for this particular training, what are you hoping to achieve? What's the impact? A lot of times it is, well, we need to train this many people, or we need to, you know, it's something training related. And it takes multiple questions and multiple to really drill down and say, okay, now this is the actual change that you want to see. So I think it's patience and it's knowing that you're probably not going to arrive there on the first conversation.
Matt Gjertsen [00:00:36]:
Hello and welcome to the making better podcast. My name is Matt Jurson and I am so excited you are with us today. There are generally two kinds of people in the world. Those who choose to take the world as it is and those who choose to make it better. On this show, we talk to people from the business and leadership world who are making the second choice. Whether they are looking to improve themselves, their organization, or the world. You will get actionable insights about how you can improve your own performance and the performance of those around you, with a little bit of inspiration thrown in as well. Our guest today is Heather Burwright.
Matt Gjertsen [00:01:16]:
Heather is the chief consultant and founder of Skill Masters Market, a business she built from the ground up with a heart to serve people. Her company provides everything from competency models to custom training to additional wraparound support, primarily for nonprofit and associated teams. In this episode, you can expect to learn how to focus training on behaviors instead of knowledge, what a competency model is, and how to build one, as well as the key steps you need to take to build relationships with stakeholders. Before we get started, I do want to remind you that if this is your first time listening to the show, please hit like and subscribe so you never miss a future episode. And if you are already subscribed, then I would ask you to share this show with at least one other person because that is how we grow. I can't tell you how much it means to me. And with that, let's get into the conversation with Heather Burwright. Heather, I'd love to get started by just understanding how you got started in the nonprofit world in the first place, because I don't think you started there originally in your career and then moved into that.
Matt Gjertsen [00:02:21]:
Is that right?
Heather Burright [00:02:22]:
Yeah, that's right. So I spent about half of my career outside of nonprofits and then half inside a national nonprofit before going out on my own as a consultant. And I loved the nonprofit work the world, the impact you can have and how L. D. Can really support and scale that impact. So when I left the nonprofit I was working at and started my consulting business, I decided to kind of start exploring whether that was a good option for me, whether I could work with nonprofit profits in this particular capacity, and it worked. So I get to work with nonprofits all over the country now, helping them create custom competency models, training, leadership development initiatives, things like that, for their staff, or whoever their intended audience is. And then I've also created a private community just for those creating training and leadership development inside of nonprofits so that they can come together and share their biggest challenges and celebrate accomplishments and really just connect with each other.
Heather Burright [00:03:18]:
So I feel like I've kind of fully integrated myself into this nonprofit world and get the benefit, both of having worked in nonprofits, but also working with nonprofits now as a consultant and then as a host of this particular group.
Matt Gjertsen [00:03:35]:
Yeah. What were some of the biggest differences you saw, especially when you transitioned into nonprofit? What were some of the biggest things that you noticed? Because I think if I'm thinking for myself, especially in times like now, where corporate budgets are super tight, we all probably have colleagues or friends who are getting laid off or are worried about getting laid off, and then you translate that to the nonprofit world, where normally you think there's even less money or it's even more fickle. I don't know. What were some of the biggest differences you noticed going from that corporate side into the nonprofit space?
Heather Burright [00:04:13]:
Yeah, there are some differences. There's also a lot of similarities. So what I found is that nonprofits really want the best for their people, and they believe in their people, and maybe it's that kind of asset based feeling that contributes to it. But I found that nonprofits really value learning, and I think you find that in some for profit settings and maybe less so in others. Right. So there are some similarities there, and maybe some differences as well. I've also found that nonprofits tend to struggle with turnover, and as many organizations are right now, but generally, nonprofits have struggled with turnover from just a historical perspective, and they view learning as kind of an essential part of the employee experience, both as they onboard new staff, but also with retaining existing ones. And so it kind of becomes a part of the incentive or the offering of working with nonprofit is you also are going to get some of this training and development support.
Heather Burright [00:05:11]:
And then I've also found that nonprofits are pretty collaborative. Again, some for profits are, but nonprofits are pretty collaborative. And so it requires a lot of people skills to be in a role like LNd, and it's often an incredibly collaborative process when you're creating that training. And that's actually what allows us to really build in some change management best practices as well, which is super fun and, I think, really beneficial for the organization. And then I would say nonprofits are always evolving. Again, for profits are in some ways. Other ways maybe not so much, but their strategies are always requiring new skills. So if you think about just COVID.
Heather Burright [00:05:53]:
Right. That changed the world for so many people. But nonprofits who were serving, their impact was a direct service. They're serving people. That was a huge change for how they could still serve people because the need didn't go away. And so they had to evolve. Their strategies had to evolve. Their skills had to evolve.
Heather Burright [00:06:13]:
And nonprofits also receive grant funding often to implement changes. So you mentioned budget as an example of maybe a difference. Their funding streams are just different. And then they have to report back to that funder on how they're using those funds. And so preparing staff to implement well is non negotiable, both because their strategies are evolving, but also because how they're funding, their training in many cases. And I think they just really want that growth and that impact, and they depend on their people to achieve it. And so that becomes kind of an essential part of how they do their work.
Matt Gjertsen [00:06:53]:
That's really interesting. There's a bunch in there that I had never really thought of before, just for the listeners that the garbage truck has decided to drive by right now. So hopefully, not too much of that comes through. But there's a bunch of interesting things that you mentioned there. For example, that idea of them needing to be flexible because they're so mission driven, they don't have the chance to say, like, oh, well, we can't really do this right now because they are so mission driven. Is that what you have found leads to just a lot more flexibility, because they just have to be more flexible and are always looking for a new way to do things?
Heather Burright [00:07:29]:
Yeah, I don't think I've worked with a nonprofit yet that hadn't had some sort of adaptability type competency in their competency model, because things are constantly changing and the needs are changing, but they don't go away. And so if you're providing any kind of direct service as part of your nonprofit, your people are constantly having to evolve to keep up with that.
Matt Gjertsen [00:07:52]:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then another thing you mentioned that makes a lot of sense is, I always think of in the talent development space from an organizational level, when an organization is thinking of developing talent, there's kind of this spectrum which on two ends is either they can build it or they can buy it. And it's often been my experience and my belief that for, I don't know, the past couple of decades or something, most organizations have been very far on the buy it side of that spectrum where you have recruiting teams that are larger than the entire rest of the HR team combined because they're just hiring, hiring, hiring. That's the only thing that they do. So it makes sense that in that nonprofit space where kind of from the get go, very often it's like you're just not going to be competitive on that scale. And so you have two options. You have, you're selling people on the mission and you're really looking for people who are mission driven, or you're selling people on this idea of development and developing themselves, and this is an opportunity for them to develop themselves. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Matt Gjertsen [00:09:02]:
How did that kind of, for your role, both, I guess, when you were inside and when you were outside, how did those changes manifest themselves in terms of the actual programs? In terms of are there just generally a lot more programs? Are they longer programs? I don't know. How do those differences between the for profit and the not for profit kind of manifest themselves specifically in talent development?
Heather Burright [00:09:29]:
Yeah. So I do think even in a nonprofit space, you're going to have organizations investing in things like LinkedIn learning or some of those off the shelf training. But I think you're also a lot of times going to have something that's pretty unique about what you're doing and how you're doing it. And so that's what kind of leads to that custom piece. I think talent development in nonprofits is often sought after, but it's not always funded. And so when it's funded, it might come with strings attached. So I mentioned grant funding as an example. They might have already included when they were applying for that grant, right.
Heather Burright [00:10:13]:
That they would use the funding for training. And so there might already be some solutions that have been identified. And so every project really has to be treated like a change project. If you are committed, for example, to training, how can you make sure that you're using that time in a way that helps get to the right solution and the right outcomes, even though you're kind of tied to a particular solution? Right. So how can you be creative about that training? That's kind of what I found is a little bit different in talent development there.
Matt Gjertsen [00:10:53]:
Yeah, it's kind of taking the idea of everybody in talent development has always experienced this idea of just like, oh, we need training. And they're like, oh, it's not a training problem. You got to do something else. But in your case, there's times where you're contractually obligated to provide training. That's kind of like a whole different dimension.
Heather Burright [00:11:13]:
Yeah, I mean, they're reporting back to the funder, so it probably depends a little bit on the relationship with the funder. If you say, well, this isn't a training issue, then do they have that relationship with the funder to go back and say, we want to use the funds in this way instead of that way? But a lot of times there is some sort of training related need. It's just figuring out how to best use that solution that you're earmarked for and figuring out how to do it. Or is there a training, but is there also wraparound things that support it? So really getting creative with how you deliver the solution, how you design the solution to meet the needs.
Matt Gjertsen [00:11:54]:
Interesting. I know I'm putting you on the spot here. Any particular examples that you can think of that you can share of times where kind of this ask comes in and whether this is internal, external, something like that, where this ask came in and you had to be creative of how to come up with a meaningful training solution to the challenge?
Heather Burright [00:12:17]:
Yeah, I hope I'm not misremembering, but several years ago, I was working on a project that had been grant funded, and we needed to, as part of the grant, this wasn't necessarily a we need a training situation. I think training had been identified, but as part of the grant, a certain number of people had to be reached. And in order to reach that number of people, in the amount of time that we had, elearning was really the only option that we had. Right. So it wasn't necessarily that training had to be the solution, but when we identified training as a solution, we were also kind of, what's the word? Like, kind of stuck. Stuck is not the right word, but say, like, okay, the only real way for us to reach this number of people in this amount of time is elearning. And so thinking about, again, in that case, what are those wraparound things? How can we partner with the communications team, that kind of thing, to really make sure we're providing all of the support that's needed and not just rolling out elearning that may or may not meet all of the needs.
Matt Gjertsen [00:13:32]:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense with that. You're having to be creative with the delivery. You're having to be flexible and very change management oriented. And there's a couple of terms that you talk a lot about on LinkedIn. I think one of them is behavior change. That's something that's really near and dear to my heart, and I honestly can't tell you how I really arrived at this idea of behavior change. I could probably tell you some kind of story, but I don't know. What about yourself? How did you become focused on this idea of behavior change? Because it's not part of the language that all talent development professionals use.
Heather Burright [00:14:11]:
Yeah, I don't know that I have a specific pinpoint of this was the change for me of why I started focusing on that. But I do think nonprofits want that growth and that impact. And like I said, they depend on their people to achieve it. And if you want to see that greatest impact, we have to think about the behaviors that will help you accomplish that. And so when you're working with nonprofits, being really specific about, here's your mission, here's your vision, here's your strategy. Now, what are the things that people actually have to do to help you achieve what you're working towards? It really is that behavior piece. And so when I'm working with nonprofits, I do this when I'm creating custom competency models, as I'm really identifying what are those skills that they're going to need to be successful and then defining the behavioral indicators that paint the picture of success. I do this when creating training, really working with my nonprofit partner to pinpoint the specific behaviors that will get them where they want to go.
Heather Burright [00:15:08]:
Because at the end of the day, they do have that mission, that vision, that strategy. They have these things in place of what they want to achieve, and you have to have the right behaviors in place if you want your people to help you get there.
Matt Gjertsen [00:15:20]:
Yeah. How do those conversations normally go? Because I think it's very different when people hear training. I always say they think of school, and so they think of information, they think of knowledge, and it can, honestly, in my experience, takes a little bit to get people into the idea of talking about behaviors. Like you said, we have these big, lofty goals. We have this mission statement, these things. How do you navigate those conversations and get them to focus on the behaviors?
Heather Burright [00:15:47]:
Yeah, I think the thing is that it's not a one time conversation. I don't think I've ever arrived at the behaviors in one conversation even if you ask, what's the impact? What's going to be the impact on the organization if you do this thing? It usually takes multiple conversations, multiple questions to get to the real impact, because people do have a certain perspective on what training is. So if I say, you brought me in for this particular training, what are you hoping to achieve? What's the impact? A lot of times it is, well, we need to train this many people, or it's something training related. And it takes multiple questions and multiple conversations to really drill down and say, okay, now this is the actual change that you want to see. I think it's patience and it's knowing that you're probably not going to arrive there on the first conversation.
Matt Gjertsen [00:16:40]:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, I think. That's right. It's all relationships and developing relationships, and that always takes time. Since you mentioned competency models, I'd love to kind of dive into this for a second and geek out because I think there's lots of words that are thrown around competencies, skills. We just use behaviors. And one of the pieces of pushback that I get when I mention behaviors is because they can seem so discreet and small. I think skills often falls into this, where you have skill platforms with 35,000 skills on them. To me, that doesn't make any sense.
Matt Gjertsen [00:17:22]:
You use the term competency. What is a competency? And then what is a competency model?
Heather Burright [00:17:29]:
Yeah. So a competency is basically a skill set of skills that you need to be successful either within the organization or within a particular role. And then a competency model is that collection of skills. So I generally like to keep competency models manageable. You mentioned, like, 35,000 skills in a database. That's not helpful.
Matt Gjertsen [00:17:54]:
What are you going to do with that?
Heather Burright [00:17:56]:
So I really try to keep them manageable. When I'm working with nonprofits and competency models, we're looking at their strategic plan, we're looking at their organizational values, we're looking at their DEI commitment, looking at sample job descriptions to really try to figure out what is it they're trying to achieve and who do they have in place to go achieve that. And then based on all of that information, what are the skills that are going to be needed to get you there? And that is what becomes the competencies. And I try to keep that. I mean, ten ish feels like a good number, right? That is even probably a lot for somebody to focus on at one time, but it gives you probably a few years worth of learning if you focus on ten or so competencies. And then the good thing about competency models is that for each of those competencies or those skills, you're defining behavioral indicators to say, this is what that skill actually looks like in action. And so what we see is that can be done across the organization. So communication is an example.
Heather Burright [00:19:00]:
Most organizations are going to say communication is important because it's an important skill for people. And so what that looks like in a support, like a supporting an administrative assistant coordinator, data entry. Right. Some of those types of roles, that's going to look different than what it looks like for your VPs, your CEOs, because at the CEO level, you're communicating a lot outside the organization. You're communicating for influence, for change, for thought leadership, for advocacy. But at the support level, you are communicating for clarity. Right. It's like a little bit of a different way of communicating.
Heather Burright [00:19:41]:
And so that behavioral indicator allows us to paint the picture of what we mean by communication in your particular role.
Matt Gjertsen [00:19:51]:
Okay, so the competencies, you said you're trying to keep this to around a list of like ten or less, and you're setting that for the organization, is that right? So there's ten for the organization. And then you're going through role by role and saying, this is what this competency looks like. This is the behavior that you're going to exhibit in this role. Yeah.
Heather Burright [00:20:13]:
A lot of times for kind of an.org wide model, we will do a collection of roles to make it a little more manageable. Not leveling from an HR leveling, that's a whole other conversation. But levels, for lack of a better word, different categories or collections of roles. So all of your supervisors, right. They might have a set of behavioral indicators that are specific to them. Because when you're supervising, you're also probably communicating a little bit differently because you're right in the middle. You're taking information from the people that you support, and you're taking information from the people who you report to, and you're trying to distill all of that. So we generally do kind of collections of roles.
Heather Burright [00:20:55]:
You can do functional competencies, which is more role specific. But I would say for an.org wide model, if you're really looking at where are we headed as an organization, a collection of roles is the best bet.
Matt Gjertsen [00:21:06]:
Yeah, that kind of makes sense. Is that often done as kind of a. It feels very tied to almost. It's like a level down if you had like mission values, competencies or something like that. In terms of how high level the concepts are or something like that.
Heather Burright [00:21:25]:
Yeah. I actually led a training session yesterday on a competency model, and I did it as a ven diagram because I feel like they all kind of work together. Right. You have your mission, your vision, your strategy, but you need the people, and you need the people that have the behaviors. They agree with the mission. They're on board with your strategies and your vision. They agree with your core values. Right.
Heather Burright [00:21:45]:
All of those things kind of come into place.
Matt Gjertsen [00:21:47]:
I love that. So the ven diagram was like, the mission vision stuff on the side, and then the competencies on the side or the people, and that's how they crossed over. I like that. Now, I don't think it was called competency. It wasn't called competency models. I've seen two initiatives to try to. It was more like leveling and skill and determining skill based and stuff like that, but same kind of effort. I've seen it twice.
Matt Gjertsen [00:22:13]:
Both times, I think it had been going on for 18 months to two years and hadn't been finished yet. I think that's one of the things that organizations fall into with these, is it's kind of like the never ending project. How do you keep that from happening? When you start with a new client, it's like, okay, we want a competency model. How do you get started, and how do you keep it running forward so it doesn't just get stuck in the mud?
Heather Burright [00:22:39]:
Yeah, I think with competency models, it's a change project. Right. So I'm not surprised that people get stuck in the change curve and aren't quite able to take it all the way to implementation. So what I found is, again, I'm generally a collaborative person in how I work. So what I have found is I do all of the document review. This kind of the first step is, like, the research, right? So do all the document review. I'm looking at the strategic plans. I'm doing all those things, but I'm also involving people.
Heather Burright [00:23:06]:
And so I'm running focus groups or interviews, doing surveys, whatever that looks like, to make sure that the people in the organization are also being heard. Because when I get to the design phase, or whatever you want to call that second phase, I'm just taking what I saw and heard from you and putting it on paper, and then that then goes back out for validation to make sure I heard you correctly. I'm understanding, I'm using your language, I'm aligning with your core values and things like that. So that piece, I feel like the process is really important because the research, they're involved, the design I'm just taking what I heard and putting it back on paper. And then the validation, they're involved. And so the more people are involved in that process, the better they feel as you go along, the less likely that they're going to suddenly halt it and say, this is not right. This is not what we expected. Once you get to the end of that process, I think there is with anything, this idea that you just have to start, you just have to release it, right.
Heather Burright [00:24:09]:
It might not be perfect, but you can iterate on it. It doesn't have to be perfect. And even with training, right, as a solution, you're creating it. You're using the best information that you have at the time to do that. Well, it doesn't always work. And we then iterate and continue on. We're putting things in place so that we're collecting that information from learners and then moving forward. Right.
Heather Burright [00:24:34]:
So same thing with competency models. There has to be a place where, at the end of the day, you release it, you launch it, see how it works, make adjustments as needed.
Matt Gjertsen [00:24:44]:
I love that. In fact, on the back of my shirt, it says, just launch it. Because it's kind of one of my mottos after. I mean, SpaceX might be almost too forward leaning in that kind of endeavor, but, yeah, for anything, whether it's building a rocket, building a competency model, building a this, you always reach a point where any more work or research is just diminishing returns because you don't know what it's going to do. It's like that old Mike Tyson quote, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Right? It's like you don't know what it's going to happen until you just put it out there. And you have to realize that a great Mark Randolph, he's one of the co founders of Netflix, and he has a great way of thinking about this kind of stuff, I think. Where very often in meetings, the phrase that everybody likes to use is, there's no bad ideas.
Matt Gjertsen [00:25:38]:
Right. We just want everybody to have their ideas. There's no bad ideas. He flips that and says, every idea is a bad idea. The only question is, how bad is it or how wrong is it? And we can't know until we put it out there. You can't know until you try it, because that real world is the only thing. What are some of the ways that. So you do the research, you write all that research down, you get in and kind of go into the design phase, and then you're working with the stakeholders.
Matt Gjertsen [00:26:09]:
Again, when you're actually implementing it, what are ways that something like a competency matrix does go wrong? What kind of things do you watch for to be like, or what are the things that you're looking for to be like? Oh, that's something that we want to, that maybe we need to tweak. What are the common failure modes?
Heather Burright [00:26:28]:
Yeah, I think it depends on how it's being implemented. So one way that you can implement it is in your hiring processes, and so you can create competency based interview questions to use in the hiring process. If you find that you're still not getting the right candidates, you might want to go back and revisit your competency model, because you might not be asking, because with companies based interview questions, you are asking questions specifically about their past experience as it relates to that competency and those behavioral indicators that you've identified. And so if you're getting them on board and they aren't able to perform at whatever level you're wanting them to perform, were you asking the right questions? And if you weren't asking the right questions, then that kind of points back to the competencies. Were the competencies right? Were the behavioral indicators right?
Matt Gjertsen [00:27:21]:
Yeah, that makes sense. So all this building a competency model, releasing it out into the world is obviously, as you said, an example of change management. And we talked a lot about, or I mentioned earlier, the words that you use a lot. Change management is one of those words that you use a lot. I loved a recent LinkedIn post you made where you said, what if instead of hearing we need a training, we heard we're going through this change. Can you help? Right. It's this idea of just, and I think I really like that. Again, since you're from the nonprofit space, since your company is focused on this idea of helping others, I feel like it's a way to slightly change the way you're viewing requests coming to you from more empathetic point of view, of understanding that there is always a reason they're coming to you.
Matt Gjertsen [00:28:12]:
You just need to understand what it is. Do you find that it's difficult, A, for learning professionals to think that way and then, B, stakeholders to think that way?
Heather Burright [00:28:27]:
I think in some ways, yes, because it's not how L and d talent development has traditionally been viewed, and it is kind of going from that order taker to strategic partner kind of concept. I think to do that, you have to stay front of mind for someone. You have to build those genuine relationships with your stakeholders and have conversations about things beyond training. So you have to really get to know them and what they care about, what's keeping them up at night. And it's probably not training that's keeping them up at night and being able to just listen to help them feel seen and heard and valued in whatever it is that they are experiencing. And then you might have a solution that would help them with that. You might not. But either way it's okay because you're building that relationship and you are trying to stay front of mind for them.
Heather Burright [00:29:22]:
And I think sometimes it's easy for lnd to kind of sit back and wait on people to come to us, but that's not really what community is. If you are thinking about your organization and creating belonging, it's not really what community is, it's not what friendship is, and it's not what a strategic business partner does, in my opinion.
Matt Gjertsen [00:29:43]:
Yeah. And it's just we are in a different place than other parts of the business because we are in a support function. We're not essential. Like if you're a supply chain, you form an essential link in the business functioning. And so it's just like it's going to happen. And I don't mean we're not essential in that. Obviously, I'm in talent development. I think it's essential, but it's a different kind of essential.
Matt Gjertsen [00:30:07]:
Like the business can technically function without us. And so that means. Yeah, I love that you mentioned the relationship piece. It's all about building those relationships. And it was interesting, I was reflecting last week kind of about AI and some of the changes that AI is making on our industry, lots of industries. And I really just came to this conclusion that basically, especially for learning development professionals, if in your job you are not providing consultative value, you're not going to have a job because AI is going to take it away. If it's just I need a. You do a, if it's I know how to use a specific tool or I know how to use this spreadsheet, or I know where the information is, those things have rapidly diminishing value right now.
Matt Gjertsen [00:31:01]:
And so I think you're right. Having that ability to build relationships, ask questions, understand people. I mean, for you, you're in a position where you're having to do this with different stakeholders all the time because you're working with different clients, what do you find are some of the best ways? I mean, I'm sure this is different for everybody, but what are some tips you would have for somebody else trying to make that transition of, okay, I want to build relationships. I want to build rapport. I don't know. What would you advise for somebody who's used to being in that order taker place and they want to change?
Heather Burright [00:31:35]:
Yeah, so I will answer that, but I also want to. Something you said sparked this in me. I was listening to a podcast this morning. I think it was on sales. It was not related to talent development. But one of the things they said is you have to do what Google can't, right? Like, there are so many things that you could just go and Google, or you could put know, chat, GPT, or whatever you're using, and you get an answer. And so if you want to be relevant and helpful, you need to do what Google can't, and Google can't form a relationship with you. And so I think that is one of the.
Heather Burright [00:32:12]:
Yes, maybe in the future, but I think that is one of the distinctive factors when you're sitting in a role, like talent development. So how to build that relationship? I mean, I think that's the question, right? I do think it varies. I think it varies based on who you are. I think it varies based on who you're working with and how they want to be engaged. But I would say a lot of it goes back to listening, and I don't think that's a skill that can be overvalued. Taking the time to listen to someone and really hear them and not just presenting the next answer or the next question that you think is important in the conversation, but really listening to what it is that they're saying. What it is they're not saying. I think that's really valuable in building a relationship.
Matt Gjertsen [00:33:03]:
Yeah. Couldn't agree more with that. Well, this has been great. Heather, as we close, I'm trying out a new kind of closing question, and I think it really fits with you, and you're in the nonprofit world and everything like that. So if you could snap your fingers and change one thing to make the world better, what would it be?
Heather Burright [00:33:24]:
Can I make people better drivers? Is that okay? No, I'll come up with a serious one.
Matt Gjertsen [00:33:33]:
I love it.
Heather Burright [00:33:34]:
I think when I think about what nonprofits are doing and how I'm working with nonprofits, change is a lot of what comes up. So when I think about change, change happens at the individual level, and I think it can happen at the community level. That's probably debatable out there somewhere with people who are much smarter than I am, but I do think it happens at the individual level, and you do see change happening at the community level. It just has to always start with the individual level. We're currently living in a world that is more connected than ever, but we know that people are lonelier than ever and loneliness impacts everything else. I mean, if you think about stress, rates of burnout, being able to hold people accountable, all of these things that impact our ability to change. So if I could snap my fingers and eliminate loneliness for the good of the world, for the good of change, that's what I would do.
Matt Gjertsen [00:34:35]:
Yeah, that's a great one. Yeah. We are definitely in a time where that is a big. And it's a weird conundrum, right? We're more connected than ever, but we're more lonely than ever. It's almost like the paradox of choice or something like that, because we can connect to everybody we don't get connected to. Very, very interesting. Well, Heather, thank you so much for being here today. Your company is skill Masters market.
Matt Gjertsen [00:35:01]:
I'm going to make sure down below to the link to your website, link to LinkedIn anywhere else you want people to find you.
Heather Burright [00:35:07]:
LinkedIn is great.
Matt Gjertsen [00:35:10]:
Perfect. Okay, well, it's been great having a discussion with you. I'm glad we dove into this whole idea of competency models because I don't know if it's been a while since I've talked to anybody about that. So thank you for being on the show. I'm sure our listeners got a lot out of it. Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you liked the discussion, make sure to hit like and subscribe so you never miss an episode. As a reminder, if your team is struggling keeping up with the training development demands of your organization, we want to help.
Matt Gjertsen [00:35:38]:
Better Everyday Studios is a full service instructional design team that can help you with everything from ideation to actual content creation and delivery. Please reach out to us using the link in the episode notes below. Have a great day.
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