Navigating Your Career & Technological Change w/Ana Smith
Episode Overview
In this episode of the Making Better podcast, we talk with Ana Smith, the Chief Learning Officer of BrightFlare Performance Solutions. A veteran of companies like Microsoft, GE, and American Express, Ana specializes in helping senior leaders manage the human side of digital transformations. In this episode we talk about a wide range of subjects from career planning and resilience to the importance of leaders having a point of view on technological change.
Check out some of the recommendations from this episode
The AI Dilemma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoVJKj8lcNQ
Huberman Lab Podcast: https://www.hubermanlab.com/podcast
Nigel Marsh: https://www.ted.com/talks/nigel_marsh_how_to_make_work_life_balance_work
About Ana Smith
Ana Smith is the Chief Learning Officer of BrightFlare Performance Solutions. Throughout her global career, she has studied the impact and relationship between people and technology and how technology can be humanized. She’s been part of executive teams in organizations such as Microsoft, GE, HP, and American Express and has developed deep expertise in the people business, helping organizations with their digital transformations and major organizational changes. She encourages innovation and forward-thinking so that leaders, managers, and employees cultivate excellence and find fulfillment and personal meaning in their work.
Full Transcript
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Ana Smith [00:00:00]:
An organization that, that lives by their values. They are most probably going to be focused on employees as customers. So they will want to delight them, they will want to create experiences for them. They will look at how managers are developed, leaders of course, etc. So it is very, very important to do your homework in order to hello.
Matt Gjertsen [00:00:26]:
And welcome to the making better podcast where we talk about how to make ourselves, our teams, and our organizations better. Whether you are a business leader, a talent development professional, or an individual contributor, this show will give you actionable insights to help you improve your own performance and the performance of those around you. Our guest today is Anna Smith. Anna has had quite the career working in some of the most well known technology organizations on the planet such as Microsoft, GE and Hewlett Packard. Throughout her career she has developed a deep expertise in the people business and helping organizations with the human side of digital transformations and organizational change. Anna is a two time TEDx speaker who helps people inspire themselves to bring their best and whole selves each and every day. I am really excited for the discussion, but before we get into it, I do need to remind you that if this is your first time listening to the show, make sure you hit subscribe so you never miss a future episode. And if you are already subscribed, then I would ask that you share this show with at least one other person.
Matt Gjertsen [00:01:35]:
Because that, after all, is how we grow. I can't tell you how much it means to me. And so with that, let's dive into the discussion. Anna, how are you doing today?
Ana Smith [00:01:47]:
Hi Matt, I'm doing wonderful, thank you. I'm very happy to be here.
Matt Gjertsen [00:01:52]:
That's fantastic. I'm really excited to have you here. I was really excited kind of researching your career, learning more about you, getting ready for this podcast. Because I got to say one of the things that stood out to me, and I kind of mentioned this in the intro, is you and I have kind of had opposite careers. I feel like when it comes to talented development, I started off in the military, but then when I got into corporate learning development, I started at SpaceX, which was a very scrappy company, learning development. There were three of us when I took over the team. I then went to an even smaller startup with start off with less than 1000 people when I started working there. And I remember people saying, after all this stuff, you really need to go to the opposite extreme.
Matt Gjertsen [00:02:39]:
I think they might have even said like GE or something, a bigger, really established company. And that's been your career. So I would love to start by kind of asking what's that like, what is talent development like in some of these larger, more established organizations, and how do you think that's kind of shaped your view of talent?
Ana Smith [00:03:01]:
Know, Matt, this is know one of the most important questions, I think, in my career because I tried as much as I could to design the career that I really wanted.
Matt Gjertsen [00:03:20]:
Awesome.
Ana Smith [00:03:20]:
It is very difficult when you are very young and starting a career. You don't know. You might have obviously gone to college. By the same token, you don't really necessarily know what you want. You don't necessarily understand what the implications are of the decisions that you're going to make and how one organization may shift your career or may take you places or not. I believe, and having been in the talent space for so long, I've seen careers where people have really literally stumbled and by falling down and picking themselves up, that's how they got to that.
Matt Gjertsen [00:04:11]:
Where they are level.
Ana Smith [00:04:13]:
And others have absolutely by design from the get go, almost like an ikigai approach to their career, which I was fortunate to have had mentors at the very beginning of my career through professors, et cetera, and decide what do you really want to do? What is the type of organization that you want to be part of? And this is obviously where you say, well, you don't know what you're doing, but you're launching yourself out there. And my career started in American Express in Mexico. So that is where pretty large organization with a very customer centric perspective and framework and philosophy across the board, and that extended not only to the outside, but to the inside. So treating customers and literally, Matt, that was instilled in my DNA, I would say. I love that very clear in my. But it was not just something that is written in marketing docs or presentations, et cetera. It's really walking the talk of customer centricity. So that took a very interesting approach to me.
Ana Smith [00:05:39]:
And then, of course, years later, as you were describing, I continued my career, always trying to identify with organizations that I knew had something particularly valuable in their mission, in their vision, in their values all around. How do they treat their employees? How do they treat their customers? What are they really all about? And I really want to be part of that, or maybe they are about to start to shift that, and I would love to be part of that. So that is how I landed in these fields, if you may.
Matt Gjertsen [00:06:18]:
Yeah, that's really interesting. So you were looking for that strategically in organizations because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who a lot of people fall into l and d like you were saying they just kind of land there. That's kind of what happened to me. And a lot of organizations do not have that employee as customer mindset, the way you set it. And so for somebody who's in a role that they're in, a company that doesn't have that and they feel that that's something that's missing, I would be interested, how do you identify that? If you were seeking out companies where you saw that in them, what were you looking for?
Ana Smith [00:07:06]:
I would look at their leadership, definitely really understanding their mission, their vision, their values, but really do your homework in terms of who the company is all about. Why do they do what they do? Right. Like the how and of course the why. It is very critical to understand that there may be changes as you get in, there may be changes in senior leadership, et cetera, once you're in. But for the most part, Matt, if you do your homework, you read about those organizations. You have to really make a list of, I really want to work in any of these seven organizations or what have you and really do your list. What are you really looking for? An organization that lives by their values and customer centricity, in this case, as we're discussing, is one of them. They are most probably going to be focused on employees as customers.
Ana Smith [00:08:07]:
So they will want to delight them. They will want to create experiences for them. They will look at how managers are developed leaders, of course, et cetera. So it is very important to do your homework in order to do that. Another very interesting bit, Matt, and I would love your thoughts as well on this is one of the things is when you are looking for a new organization to be your next home, if you may, your professional home. Is the talent acquisition process.
Matt Gjertsen [00:08:44]:
Yes.
Ana Smith [00:08:45]:
Was it easy? Was it direct, it straightforward? Was it human? Was it like, it almost feels like you're going into the Navy SeALs, which I understand is one of the most complicated to get in for a lot of reasons, or do they make it really a human experience where I really want to get to know you, Matt, whether you end up with us or not, but I really want to get to know you because you may not be the best fit for this role, but you are a fit for the organization because you have all these other areas. But I don't know. What do you think, Matt?
Matt Gjertsen [00:09:29]:
No, I mean, I couldn't agree with you more on that. I think the recruiting, the hiring process is a huge tell on how much the organization not just cares about their people and how they're going to treat their people, but kind of how much they have it together as well, just like, do they have it together as an organization? And I'll never forget one of the last companies that I worked for. So I had interviewed with them and they said they were interviewing some other people and it kind of got strung along. Strung along. And I waited weeks and weeks to hear a final decision and they decide to schedule time with me on the 4 July to tell me that I didn't get the role, but they wanted me for another role. And so I actually ended up going there because they ended up hiring for something else. But that was a big tell on like, yeah. Though I had all kinds of reasons in my mind, I rationalize it and be like, oh, it's going to be fine.
Matt Gjertsen [00:10:32]:
I was talking to somebody who wasn't from the States and so they didn't realize how big of a deal it was and yada yada. But it definitely was a tell to me that they would want to schedule that time. Yeah, it revealed a lot about what the company ended up being like when I worked there. So I couldn't agree with you more.
Ana Smith [00:10:55]:
Yes, I absolutely hear you and certainly a conversation for another day. But we make decisions with our emotions and then we justify them with logic when that is the case, when we have these opportunities, especially for these type of deals. But that is very telling in terms of organizationally speaking, how they behave. And I can tell you of very wonderful experiences to the point of arriving to my first day. And this is a new town for you. We don't know what your circumstances, and they set it all up, but let us send that car for you. How much could that be, price wise, charge wise, et cetera. It was like, okay, somebody took the time to send it to me, to take me over.
Ana Smith [00:12:01]:
There was somebody waiting for me as soon as I arrived. But Matt, if you look at those details, yeah, how costly can that be?
Matt Gjertsen [00:12:22]:
I mean, how much stress is involved on the first day at a new job simply because you don't know where the office is, you've never driven there before. And let's say even, let's go extreme, let's talk about a reasonably large company that's hiring 1000 people a year. So what does that cost them? $50,000 a year if they did that for every single person, and it would completely transform their day one experience. Wow.
Ana Smith [00:12:52]:
Exactly. And as we know, in the first 90 days, you decide if you're going to stay or not in that company in the long run. So these are some of the details that for folks that have these in their hands. We sometimes look at major investments or earth shattering things, and we keep forgetting that we're human and that we have feelings, we have needs. And please help me on one.
Matt Gjertsen [00:13:23]:
Especially in kind of our world of the talent development space. It's so easy to look for those giant initiatives. You're going to spend six months building this whole new program when they just need a user guide, they just need a helping hand. They just need a conversation, right? That's all they need. They just need a conversation. Sometimes it's those small things that can have the most impact for. Exactly, exactly. Awesome.
Matt Gjertsen [00:13:55]:
Well, I'm excited that I was not expecting the conversation to go that way. That was great. I think that was some really great advice. I love how deliberate you were. I mean, I just talked to a good friend of mine, Andy Storch, who talks a lot about career advice and that designing your life is so important. I'll never forget there's a TED talk from years ago by Nigel Marsh. It's over a decade old now, but it changed my life with this simple statement at the end of it where he just says, if you don't design your life, someone will design it for you. Right? Like talk about a mic drop statement.
Matt Gjertsen [00:14:34]:
That's it. That's it. Well, that's super exciting. So we kind of ended that discussion with some of the smaller changes that we can make. But a lot of your career has been about organizational change, and especially organizational change around technology. And certainly if you go back, I'm sure 50 to 100 years when electricity was coming online and that kind of stuff, those are some major changes. But I, for one, don't think there's any doubt that right now artificial intelligence is like just creating massive waves in all kinds of different ways. However much hype you buy into or what its limitations are, it's changing a lot of things.
Matt Gjertsen [00:15:19]:
We're sitting here almost a year, or it's been just over a year since Chat GPT first kind of came on the scene, and just all of this kind of change has exploded. For someone like you who works with a lot of different organizations over the last year, especially, what have you been seen as a result of? And maybe it's not just AI, but just technology in general, what are the major things that you're seeing organizations have to deal with regarding change driven by technology?
Ana Smith [00:15:48]:
Right now, I think that I will probably put it in two areas just to grab probably the largest that I've seen. One, a huge need to upskill and reskill managers and leaders from wherever they were. So we haven't given them any training in five years. But can you please help us?
Matt Gjertsen [00:16:15]:
Sure.
Ana Smith [00:16:18]:
We haven't done anything deliberate. We are experiencing a lot of issues with our managers, and that is reflected in our employees, in employee engagement. I mean, it becomes a domino effect. A big area is, and I'm thankful for those leaders that identify that they need to invest in anybody that manages people and leads people. It's a must in any single change, whether you're going to do a change in any system, whether it's an LMS, as basic as that, but also something as you're going to change the business model in your company. A huge one, right?
Matt Gjertsen [00:17:11]:
Yeah. Before you go on to the other two, because I would love to stick on that one. Just because you've been at this in so many different organizations, do you see that as a new thing, or is that a constant? Like, is there a particular need right now to upskill managers that's being caused by something, or is this just kind of an ever present need? I mean, obviously it's an ever present need, but is it more of a need right now?
Ana Smith [00:17:34]:
This is the big money question. What I mean by that is organizations that have been training and developing and putting attention to developing the mindset and the skill set, and I'd like to say the heartset as well of their managers and their leaders are ahead of the curve right now. Why? Because you can send them whatever AI or anything else, and we've only seen the surface of what's going to come next. But if you are not prepared through the people that guide and take care and look after the employees in an organization, it is very difficult that you can do any significant change successfully. It may be very obvious, Matt, but for whatever circumstance, organizations that have not prioritized this are suffering extensively with turnover, with employee engagement, with a lot, a lot of things. Right. And every single day we read, we're in contact with what's going on in a lot of organizations, organizations, even technology organizations that are going bankrupt. And it's not just organizing and putting a company out there that might be very successful at a certain point in time worth billions.
Ana Smith [00:19:19]:
But how do you sustain that?
Matt Gjertsen [00:19:21]:
It's not just today.
Ana Smith [00:19:22]:
It's what are you going to do in five and ten and 15 years? But that's the deal. So that is where your leaders come into play and your managers, two different fronts, two different things that they're doing. But there is a language map. There is a set of values that accompanies that. There's a set of behaviors that accompanies that. It's not just let's send them on a one month or a one day deal. Right. It's creating a coaching culture or what have you, whatever the approach might be.
Ana Smith [00:19:57]:
So that is one big bit.
Matt Gjertsen [00:19:58]:
Yeah. Okay.
Ana Smith [00:20:00]:
Right. The other area is thinking about technology as leaders. Anybody that is in a leadership role or a management role, if you push me a little, I would say anybody across the board should very well informed of what the implications are and have a point of view. Leaders that I coach, okay. When they come and they complain in a coaching session or whatever, or sounds like a complaint. So what is your point of view on that? Well, let's try and build one. Build one for yourself. Let's discuss it.
Ana Smith [00:20:50]:
And there's different ways to look at this, Matt, but for me, I always look at technology revolutions, if you may, changes of this magnitude. What are the implications for human, what are the implications? Because who works for who, technology works for you or you work for technology.
Matt Gjertsen [00:21:21]:
Yeah.
Ana Smith [00:21:22]:
So if you're not attentive, it is such a wave that it is very difficult to not be caught in that. And the most important thing I believe is that I at least always try the folks that I have the privilege to co create with and coach, et cetera, is don't only think about it from a business standpoint, think about it from an ethical standpoint, from a people standpoint, et cetera. But think about the ethics of this. What are the implications? Businesses are out there to make money, sure, but there's ways and ways to make money. So what are the ethical implications? So to give you an idea of what my comment has behind is companies that like Facebook, like Google and many others, they have organizational psychologists like myself working on building and creating their applications and everything that will be part of their platforms to ensure that it's based on human psychology and that they're able to influence humans and make them become addictive. That's in an algorithm. There is a fantastic session, Ted, from Tristan Harris on the AI dilemma. Highly recommended for leaders to.
Ana Smith [00:23:22]:
I have the privilege of having at some point connected with, you know, he came from being somebody in charge of ethics in Google, and then he has started this whole movement, as you know. But the interesting thing is not the complaint, it's the awareness. It's whatever it is that you're going to do as a leader, as a senior leader or whatever decision you're making. And you have to manage a lot of levers because you have to stay in business and at the same time, incorporate technology. But there's ways to do that in an ethical way. Absolutely. That's at an organizational level. Right.
Ana Smith [00:24:06]:
Happy to individual. But that's in a nutshell for leaders. I think those two areas.
Matt Gjertsen [00:24:12]:
Yeah, okay. That makes sense. So we got the manager development, and then just kind of. It's a challenge to keep up and as you say, have an opinion on all of the changes that are happening right now. On that note, we can stick at the high level for a second of how do you coach people or organizations? High level leaders kind of through that development of, they start off with just a complaint or they start off with just a thing that's happening that they're annoyed with, whether it's everybody wants to work from home or everybody's on TikTok or whatever it is. How do you coach them through that process of developing a point of view that isn't just, I don't like it.
Ana Smith [00:25:00]:
Oh, my goodness. This is a great one, Matt. And if we take the working from home, that's a huge one. I think the 2024 challenge that we're going to have because of everything that we know. So from my perspective, I think that if you're able to organize and make people aware in your organizations of what the implications are of, we're not going to be able. I mean, leaders have to make tough decisions, for sure. If the organization requires people to be physically in the office two days a week, then they need to have the opportunity to present the rationale for that and treat their employees as adults rather than this is the decision, everybody's coming back, and I'm sorry. Right.
Matt Gjertsen [00:26:09]:
In my experience, from what I've seen, that is the number one place where most of the complaints come from. It's just nobody talked to us, nobody said anything. It was just on high. And just reasoning through it, giving the reasons makes such a difference.
Ana Smith [00:26:25]:
Exactly. And you asked me, what are some of the ways? So if you bring, for example, if you create some focus groups, if you help, if you gather some intel, if you are in a global organization, you face other challenges, of course, because you have, in some cases, unions, in other cases, circumstances that prevail in Europe, et cetera, et cetera. But you have your experts, you have your HR experts locally, and if you're able to gather within those different areas, what are really the most important aspects for people. So if you can only choose two out of ten, what would those be? Yeah, I can tell you that the research is telling us a lot about talking about autonomy, talking about flexibility, but it's about, do I feel I have the flexibility? Do I feel I have the flexibility? Or because my company is telling me that we're flexible because one Friday a month we work from home. So it is very interesting to really identify and quantify what that is, have that opportunity. Okay, you have a lot to say. Well, then join our focus group or whatever comes out of it. This is not a wish list.
Ana Smith [00:28:05]:
It's an opportunity for us to really understand what's going on and prioritize over that and then prioritize over, combine it with our business. So it is an effort, Matt. It's a new thing and we have to deal with it.
Matt Gjertsen [00:28:23]:
But it's really understanding, like what you said near the beginning of this conversation, of we make decisions with our feelings and then rationalize it with our logic. And that's so true. If you don't understand that basic principle and you just say things and give the facts and whatever without addressing the emotional side of it, the human side of it, it's not going to work out well.
Ana Smith [00:28:51]:
Correct. And there's an expectation nowadays I have to probably acknowledge and caveat myself that I'm giving very general or generalized perspectives. Different organizations, obviously are in different moments and times, et cetera. But I think for the most part, these are very common pains. And the one that I see surfacing as part of the process of everything that has transpired from the pandemic and onwards is, of course, everything around well being. Right. And how do I feel what that might be? And therefore, that puts another layer of complexity on leaders, on managers and senior leaders in organizations. So this is another one that will be part of that hybrid in office remote, et cetera.
Ana Smith [00:30:00]:
Right. Being remote all the time is not ideal either.
Matt Gjertsen [00:30:05]:
Yeah, no, 100%. And I think to bring it back to that idea of having a point of view and how to have a point of view, it's about thinking through, how do you as a leader develop an informed point of view? And there's a lot of ways to do that. Focus groups are a great way to do that. Bringing in experts is a great way to do that. But that's ultimately what it is of just asking yourself, this is probably a generalized advice that can be applied to most places, is just ask yourself that question. How can I have an informed point of view on this change, on this subject, on this thing?
Ana Smith [00:30:46]:
Yes. One of the senior leaders that I have the privilege to coach, what he does in terms of building that muscle of having a point of view, et cetera, is that with his team, for every one of their weekly meetings, one of them has to be what we used to call the devil's advocate, or he or she has to be the one. So you have to prepare yourself for presenting, because it's not only the, I'm going to read 17 articles and three books. And then, no, if you think about it, what I really like about this exercise is helping them become more influential, helping them become more resilient. How do you get feedback at those levels from very senior people? Because, believe me, if it comes from this, imagine the board, that those are shorter and not necessarily sweeter, et cetera. So the opportunity to practice in a relatively safer environment, according to him, has helped his team a lot. And it's not always on him having to have the super, the latest and greatest information and everything. And it brings everybody, when the tide rises, everybody, all boats rise.
Matt Gjertsen [00:32:17]:
That makes sense. And I think this discussion, this advice really applies not just at the organizational level or the senior leader level, but we can apply these same kinds of things to anybody. To me, as an individual contributor sitting inside an organization, I would assume what would change, because your TED talk, one of your recent TED talks was about kind of that loss of humanity as a result of technology. And most of everything you've been saying is when you're thinking about any kind of change, technology or otherwise, how do you take into account the fact that it's a change happening to people and how do you bring that into it? Would you have any other advice for how? Just me as an individual person, I'm out in the world, there's all this change happening. I need to understand technology, I need to get interested in it, but I want to humanize it as well. Would any of your advice change for that kind of person?
Ana Smith [00:33:12]:
I think the big opportunity for each one of us is in addition to keeping abreast, keeping ourselves informed, don't just listen to one person, listen to different angles, academics, people that have applied science different, an exchange, get into the conversation, not just, oh, well, this is what I think. And you're not going to make me change my mind. No. Go further down and demonstrate more of a growth mindset, not only for you teaching others or sharing with others why you believe this is important and why everything that you have gathered around that, but also because when you don't change, this is the big, or I should say transform, right? The change is the external. The transformation comes internally. And what I want to answer with to this from an individual perspective, independently of your level or role, is you have to know yourself very important. Know yourself if you assess. I usually give my coaches like a nasi test on their calendar.
Ana Smith [00:34:38]:
So tell me a little bit how it behaves. How much time do you spend in your devices? How much time do you spend with your family? Don't tell me, go back, check your, check your calendar and then come tell me, let's talk about it. And most of the time they come back shocked. Like what? I spend 17 hours a week in meetings, just in meetings. Forget about preparation and so on and so forth.
Matt Gjertsen [00:35:11]:
Show me your calendar, show me your bank account, and I'll tell you what you care about.
Ana Smith [00:35:15]:
Exactly. You got it. So very much like that. Also be compassionate with yourself and don't put it all on you. But when you do these exercises of assessing and evaluating yourself and I'll bring it back to emotions, what really triggers me and how do I behave when I'm triggered, if you may. So in conclusion for any individual is get to know yourself. If we take it to more of the digital perspective is what are those habits that are derailing me that are, I'm not the most popular at the dinner table because I tell everybody, because I'm the father or the mother. Everybody put their, I'm not the most popular because of that, but I keep it there.
Ana Smith [00:36:13]:
What are some of those things, specifically your digital habits? And then how do you want to start that transformation, your transformation, if you think about it. So today is the 27th. So in a year from today, where would I like to be? And then start small with small changes. That is the number one reason why Matt, and you probably know this, but I always like to bring it to this. We believe that we need to change our habits 180 degrees from one day to the next. That's why we fail, or most people fail. And therefore it's the small, it's the step, right? Like some of our great change habit thinkers. And of course they're going to kill me now because I'm not remembering their immediate name just now.
Ana Smith [00:37:12]:
But that is basically their approach, their thesis.
Matt Gjertsen [00:37:16]:
Yeah, I 100% agree. I mean, so much so. I always tell people that if I ever write a book on personal development, it's going to be called lower the bar. Because I think that's really the key. When you make those first changes, it's about lowering the bar of success so that you can just have wins that then propel you.
Ana Smith [00:37:36]:
Yes, absolutely. The thing with that, with this great question on individuals, Matt, that I've seen works really well. Partner with someone else. Like partner with someone else. And I'm going to be working on this. Can you help me? Or can we touch base once a week or every other week or what have you, and how can I help you? And therefore you almost start to start your little movement in your team or area or what have you, but the important thing is to start.
Matt Gjertsen [00:38:14]:
Yes, awesome. I think, yeah, just getting started. And on that note, so for me, when I think about making a change and starting, it often starts with a book. That's often where I start. So as we close out, I'd love to ask you, we ask these three questions for every guest. So first, what is one book or podcast that everyone should read or listen to and why?
Ana Smith [00:38:43]:
Yes, I think there's so many good ones, especially with the focus that I have in the past, probably eight or ten years, which are more directed towards neuroscience, so going even deeper for human transformation. But I love Huberman's podcast, great scientist. What I value about it is that even though they are very complex concepts and points and interconnections, he makes them and brings them to life in a very tangible, practical way, still with the value of understanding and having the right terminology in neuroscience. But that's definitely one.
Matt Gjertsen [00:39:37]:
Awesome.
Matt Gjertsen [00:39:38]:
That's a great one. Awesome for yourself. When you think about the skills that you have, what one skill has helped you be the most successful during your career, you think?
Ana Smith [00:39:49]:
I think resilience. Resilience has been the number one area. And I think as part of that almost ikigai approach that I mentioned at the beginning, one of the things that I learned when I had my first big failure from my perspective was, okay, what am I going to do next? Because I really need to continue and move forward, but I don't feel like it. So there's an exercise of gaining more self awareness. What did you learn? What did you learn, Matt? That was my biggest. Okay, what were the three things? That and starting a gratitude journal. So I have a gratitude journal for probably twelve years now. So the three things, why I'm grateful for in the day, so I write them, whatever it is, some sunsets, talking to a beautiful friend, whatever you want.
Ana Smith [00:40:57]:
But not everything has to be earth shattering.
Matt Gjertsen [00:41:00]:
No, sometimes it's the smallest things for sure. It's remembering those little things.
Ana Smith [00:41:06]:
Yes. Opening that resilience.
Matt Gjertsen [00:41:10]:
I love it.
Ana Smith [00:41:11]:
Magic.
Matt Gjertsen [00:41:11]:
Excellent. Okay, then turning to organizations and the organizations you work with, what is the most common opportunity you see that organizations can improve talent development?
Ana Smith [00:41:26]:
If I had my brothers. Leadership. Leadership. So the opportunity to have, I have had an opportunity, as you mentioned before, to work in organizations that have invested and put their money where their mouth is relative to leadership development. For example, in this particular case, I would say GE through thick and thin, through the best times and the worst times, they never ceased to invest in leadership. And how that pays off is you don't only have a constant machine to produce and build the muscles for leadership, Matt. But that has also granted that GE has created the most ceos in the world than any other company. It's a lot of investment, it's a lot of hard work.
Ana Smith [00:42:24]:
I understand. But that is really, I think, what can change an organization, a team, and anybody that is part of a great leader's.
Matt Gjertsen [00:42:38]:
No, absolutely. I couldn't agree with more there. Well, Anna, thank you so much for coming on today. This has been a really great discussion. It was great to get to know you. Great to learn about you beforehand, get to know you a little bit more now. I'm sure we'll keep in touch. So thank you so much for being on today.
Ana Smith [00:42:56]:
Thank you, Matt. Thank you for bringing these very critical topics to the forefront for everybody. Thank you.
Matt Gjertsen [00:43:03]:
Absolutely. Have a great day.
Ana Smith [00:43:05]:
You too. Thank you.
Matt Gjertsen [00:43:06]:
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