Transforming Your Career Through Deliberate Action w/Andy Storch
Episode Overview
Andy is an inspiring author, speaker, facilitator, and a master at connecting people. In his quest to inspire people to be intentional with their lives and careers, he has unearthed alternative paths to success and the mounting awareness of those paths. Today, we'll discuss the pivotal need for individuals to take ownership of their career growth, the importance of empathy and curiosity as key skills in any career role, and how challenges can pose both restricting and transformative effects on employee engagement.
Andy also shares some game-changing book recommendations for mindset growth, spotlights the value of genuine connections, and emphasizes the universal importance of not self-eliminating or being afraid of failure. Whether you're an entrepreneur, an employee, or on your path to personal or professional growth, this is an episode you won't want to miss.
About Andy Storch
Andy Storch is an author, speaker, facilitator, and connector on a mission to teach and inspire more people to own their careers and be more intentional with life. He is the author of Own Your Career Own Your Life, which is designed to help corporate professionals stop drifting and take control of their futures.
In addition to his work in the career space, Andy is also the founder and host of the Talent Development Think Tank podcast, conference, and membership community, where he provides education and connections for ambitious talent development professionals. Most importantly, Andy is a husband, father and friend who is on a mission to get the absolute most out of life and inspire others to do the same.
Full Transcript
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Andy Storch [00:00:00]:
It's easier than ever to find a new job and do something different. It doesn't mean that it's easy for you in this circumstance at this moment, but it's never been easier to find out what's available out there and go apply for a different job or see what's possible for you. And so I think it's awareness is opening up. But that said, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people are still sitting around waiting for someone to bring something to them, whether that's cultural or it's just sort of like innate in them, that they're like, well, I'm afraid to kind of go after what I want because what if I get shut down or rejected or that doesn't exactly exist. And so I still see a huge opportunity in what I'm doing to speak to more people and teach and inspire more people to take ownership so that they start going after those things that they want.
Matt Gjertsen [00:00:47]:
Hello and welcome to the Making Better podcast where we talk about how to make ourselves, our teams, and our organizations better. Whether you are a leader, a learning development professional coach, or a technical trainer, this show will give you actionable insights of how to improve your own performance and the performance of those around you. Our guest today is the amazing Andy Storch. Andy is the author, speaker, facilitator and connector on a mission to teach and inspire more people to own their careers and be more intentional with their life. He is the author of Own your career, Own your Life, which is designed to help corporate professionals stop drifting and take control of their futures. In addition to his work in the career space, Andy is also the founder and host of the Talent Development Think Tank Podcast Conference and membership community where he provides education and connections for ambitious talent development professionals. Most importantly, Andy is a husband, father and friend who is on a mission to get the absolute most out of life and inspire others to do the same. I am so pleased to Count Andy as a friend.
Matt Gjertsen [00:01:58]:
We first met on LinkedIn about a year ago before finally connecting in person at ATD 2023 in San Diego. I've since become a member of his talent development think tank community and I am so pleased to have him in my life and constantly get inspiration from not only what he has done, but the amazing energy he has about life. So I know you are going to get a ton out of this discussion today. Before we dive into that discussion, I do want to remind you really quickly that if you've never listened to the show before, make sure to hit subscribe so you never miss a future episode. And if you are already subscribed, I would really appreciate it if you would share this show with just one other person, because that, after all, is how we grow. I can't tell you how much it means to me. So with that, let's get started. Andy, how are you doing today?
Andy Storch [00:02:51]:
Matt, I am doing fantastic, and I'm really excited to be here. Honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Matt Gjertsen [00:02:59]:
Absolutely. You know, like I said in the intro, I am always amazed at the energy that you bring to everything. I know we had some talking points that we kind of wanted to go through, but I'd love to start there actually, with just kind of where does this energy come from for you? Like, you're just so excited about helping others, connecting others, kind of where does that come from for you?
Andy Storch [00:03:24]:
Yeah, there's a few places. And one, I have to say, I think part of it is natural to me. I don't know how I developed this gift to just have so much energy for life and to bring to every situation, but part of it is also intentional as well. I realized I have this, and there's sort of an opportunity where you realize a strength or a gift that you have, but then you still need to find a way to harness that, to bring it into situations or the right situations. And I remember, funny enough, I kind of got into this game through consulting and facilitation years and years ago. And I worked for a company that had a very big feedback culture. We give them feedback to each other all the time, which is like, nice, really hard when you're in it.
Matt Gjertsen [00:04:10]:
Right?
Andy Storch [00:04:11]:
But then it's how we get better, and it's how I've become such a good speaker and facilitator. And once I was running a workshop, and I don't think I started it with very much energy, and someone gave me feedback and said, like, hey, you really need to start the workshop of the day. Worth more energy. And I remember writing on my notes, energy, really big on there, and sort of making this commitment that from now on, I'm going to bring a lot of energy to everything I do, every interaction I have. The other thing I'll say about that is that I realized that I have a lot of energy inside me. And when I was younger, I would probably push that down or because I was shy and I was maybe afraid of what other people would think about me or say about me. And as I've gone through a very big sort of personal development transformation over the last few years, and I've really gotten to know myself and the value that I can bring to others in the world. I've sort of made a commitment, just completely be myself and not worry about what other people think.
Andy Storch [00:05:06]:
And that is not easy to do. It's one of those things you listen to and you nod and you're like, oh, yeah, I'd like to do that, too. I know a lot of people have a hard time with that. It's a long term process that you go through to really, truly get to know yourself, to commit to being yourself and not worrying about what other people think. But I can tell you it's so freeing when you get to that place where I can walk into a meeting with corporate clients and start dancing and not care what anybody thinks about it. And what I've learned through that time is that in doing that, I sort of show up with more confidence and become more attracted to more people. Right. Because when you see people that are, people like to say, quote, comfortable in their own skin, something like that, for lack of a better word, you kind of want to be around those people.
Andy Storch [00:05:52]:
And so I've learned that in going and bringing that energy and being myself, it makes me more attractive in many situations that people just think like, yeah, I want more of that. And I'm attracted to people like that as well. So I try to bring as much energy and enthusiasm to everything I do because I think it's going to bring more value to the people that I'm with.
Matt Gjertsen [00:06:15]:
Yeah, that's great. I love that kind of core memory that you had that really pushed this forward for you, because you're right, I think. Yeah, so much of the world, it's definitely truer in other societies. You hear about Australia's tall Poppy syndrome, where nobody wants to stand out. You look at a field of poppies and the one that's sticking up, you cut it down so that it's all uniform. There definitely is a strong sense of that. I remember just recently there was this real estate investor that I follow on Instagram, and she was answering the question of, why do I always wear such sparkly dresses to conferences? Because she goes to these real estate conferences and gives talks, and she's always standing out. And she said, I think you would really agree with this.
Matt Gjertsen [00:07:01]:
She said to her, going to a conference is 20% about learning and 80% about connecting. And so if you want to connect, then you need to stand out. You need to look different. Obviously, you don't want to look like a clown, but if you can find a way to, in true service of yourself really amplify who you are. You're going to stand out in people's minds.
Andy Storch [00:07:30]:
Yeah, let me just rip on that for a second, because I've gone to a lot of conferences. I've hosted my own conferences. I love going to conferences and events, and people used to interview me just on how to get the most out of conferences because I've gone to so many. And one thing I always really think about, I say to people is like, yeah, go to a conference because of the speakers. And I think people do initially buy tickets because of the speakers they might see. But the lasting value is in the people you meet. It's in those relationships that you build, because first and foremost, most of those speakers, you can probably get their content online. Like, you don't have to go to the conference to get it right.
Andy Storch [00:08:05]:
You could go to YouTube or read their book or something. But second of all, that information kind of fades. I think about a couple of years ago, Matt, you and I have a mutual friendship with a guy named Bob Gentle in Scotland. I met him at a conference in London five years ago. I don't remember any of the sessions or speakers from that conference, but I have a group of about five or six really good friends I made from that conference, including Bob, who I talk with still on a regular basis. And so the value from that was completely in making those connections. And just one other note. I don't really wear sparkly outfits.
Andy Storch [00:08:40]:
I like to wear nice outfits at conference. But I was at a really huge one. You and I talked about it called Unleash HR in Paris recently. There were thousands of people there, and there was one guy wearing this kind of loud yellow suit. And the host mentioned him on stage. He was like, where is that guy in the yellow suit? I want to meet that guy. So I don't know what his goal was for the conference. I didn't get to meet him, but sort of mission accomplished, right? By standing out, he's getting attention.
Andy Storch [00:09:06]:
The host wanted to talk to him. Maybe other speakers did, too. Who knows? Like where it might lead to. But there are advantages to that.
Matt Gjertsen [00:09:12]:
Yes, absolutely. There's so many advantages to it. Well, going back a little bit to what you mentioned, kind of how you started early on, when you started podcasting, you were podcasting more in the entrepreneurial space. I think it was called the Entrepreneur Think Tank or Hot Seat, and it was the entrepreneur the self development space. When did the shift happen from that into talent development for you?
Andy Storch [00:09:42]:
Yeah. So going back in time, 2016 is when I really discovered this world of personal development. I started reading lots of books and listening to podcasts. I had been listening to podcasts for years, but it was maybe more like news and investing, and then started getting into a lot more personal development, entrepreneurship. As I was going through my own personal development journey, doing a lot of reading, learning, self discovery, I realized that I had a strong draw towards entrepreneurship. I just felt this desire to be an entrepreneur. I don't know why there were no entrepreneurs in my family. My parents were teachers.
Andy Storch [00:10:15]:
I didn't even know what that was growing up. Right? But then I start listening to this podcast, and I'm like, that's what I want. Like, I want to run my own business. And so as I was trying to figure that out, I was in a mastermind group created by a guy named Larry Hagner for Dads specifically, and he challenged us to do something big in, like, 90 days. And so I decided to start a podcast. And that podcast, the first podcast, was the entrepreneur Hot Seat, which I started in 2017. It was a way to interview entrepreneurs so that I could learn about entrepreneurship, to try to figure out how the heck am I going to become an entrepreneur. I was working in consulting at the time, and the next year, I had an opportunity to make a move to becoming more of an independent consultant contractor in that space.
Andy Storch [00:10:59]:
And I saw an opportunity to maybe start interviewing people who worked in talent development, because those people tended to be my most common clients. Learning and development, talent development. When I was running these leadership development programs and I had this kind of Aha moment, this is sort of like the inside behind the scenes on this, where I was doing this entrepreneur podcast, and I was starting to interview these pretty successful entrepreneurs that I would not normally get a chance to talk to. And I had this moment where I went to my wife and I was like, man, this is crazy. I'm getting to talk to these people. They would not normally give me the time of day. And my wife's a former journalist, and she was like, yeah, of course they want the publicity. Like they're going to say yes to come on your show.
Andy Storch [00:11:37]:
And I was like, oh, so this is interesting way, like, AvenuE to have conversations with people. I wonder if I can do this in talent development. And so one of the goals as I was going out on my own was A, learn as much as possible about what's going on in the talent development space, because I didn't know that much, and B, use the podcast as a vehicle to get conversations with people who wouldn't normally talk to me, because, Matt, you and I are both consultants in the corporate world. We know that our clients are getting tons of cold emails and messages on Linkedin, like, hey, can we have a meeting? But there's no really compelling reason why I was like, hey, let's do a podcast interview. And that gets us on Zoom. We can build a relationship. I had no idea where it would go. I started that podcast in the middle of 2018, and that eventually grew so that I did find some clients.
Andy Storch [00:12:25]:
I made a lot of friends. I built my network. I learned a ton about talent development. It turned into a conference that I hosted with my friend Bennett Phillips in January 2020. We built it in 2019. That turned into the membership community that you mentioned. And then I hosted the conference again earlier this year. It's just turned into a host of things that I had no idea were even possible for me.
Andy Storch [00:12:50]:
And it all started with that podcast with an idea. And I'll tell you, too, since we're both podcasters and I'm big on networking and going to different groups, I remember I went into this really big podcast, this Facebook group for podcasters, and I was like, hey, I'm thinking about starting a podcast in the B to B space to interview corporate people. Do you think people will do that? And I got hardly any responses except from a guy that was like, don't do it. It's not going to work. And I was like, what are you talking about? I think this will work. Five years later, 400 episodes later. It's working very well. And I share that story.
Andy Storch [00:13:24]:
I mean, you asked about the story, but for anybody thinking about, what's that big thing, that dream that you have, sometimes it just starts with that first step, like starting that first thing and not even knowing where it's going to go, but just starting to try stuff to do scary things and then building on that, building on that, building on that. And one day it might turn into a book, a conference. Who knows? There's lots of things that come from it, but you got to take.
Matt Gjertsen [00:13:48]:
The first was just. I was actually just listening to Alex from Mosi's podcast this morning, and he mentioned the exact same thing of, like, the thing that makes entrepreneurship hard or business hard is that you just have to do the unknowns. You have to do things that you don't know if they're going to pay off. Yeah, that's what's fun about it.
Andy Storch [00:14:12]:
That's what's exciting about it. That's what we love, right? And that's not for everybody. And so as I was making this move into. I published my book and start teaching people about owning their careers. I share my story, but it's not about teaching people to be entrepreneurs, because, as you and I know, we've both been in the corporate space. We've been on the other side. I love it. I think you love it.
Andy Storch [00:14:33]:
But entrepreneurship is not for everybody. But I think what everybody does want is to build a career where they feel happy and fulfilled, like they're using their strengths, they're doing work that they like to do. And so I just want to help more people find that whether you're an entrepreneur or you're working for a company, it doesn't matter to me. I just want you to do what you want to do.
Matt Gjertsen [00:14:50]:
Yeah, well, going down that path a little, it's. It's so interesting hearing your story, because I feel like we have very similar stories. It just took me a lot longer to realize that I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but we both kind of got similar stories.
Andy Storch [00:15:06]:
You were freaking Air Force pilot trainer. Like, I'm just a guy.
Matt Gjertsen [00:15:10]:
But exactly what you were just saying. It so resonates with me of this idea of falling into this personal development space, realizing that you kind of want something different and really doing the work to introspect and think about, okay, what is a different Way to do it? And like you, I've wound up in this talent development space, and I'm always struck by how much energy there is in the personal development space. Like, I've been to a Tony Robbins conference. I've literally walked across hot coals at this conference with thousands of people. But then you flip it, and it's about developing others, and there is rarely that same energy. What do you think? That even if it's not the individuals, it's just companies don't see it that way. Organizations often don't think about talent development the way individuals think about personal development, when in the end, they're kind of reaching for the same goals. Don't you think? How do you see that vast difference in energy? Or maybe you see something different.
Matt Gjertsen [00:16:25]:
Maybe I'm getting it wrong.
Andy Storch [00:16:27]:
I think that it would be interesting if we had data to look at people's interests and companies interests, because I think you're going to see a wide variance, and it kind of depends on your own bias and what you're seeing when you're at UPW. Unleash the power within. With 20,000 people who are like, gung ho listening and walking across the coals, you're like, I found my people, and there's lots of people out there that are in personal development. But then you come out of it and you look around, you realize there's actually millions, if not billions of people who have never even heard of Tony Robbins or think that he's just some infomercial guy and are not into personal development at all. And so there's people on both sides. And I think the people that are, even though there's so many books out there and people making lots of money by catering to the personal development industry, I still think it's a small percentage of people that are actively looking to try to do something better with their lives. Everybody wants their life to improve, but people that are actually willing to take action, to read a book, to go to a conference, versus the vast majority that are like, I just want to get by, make enough money to get paid to have a decent life, and then watch Netflix every night. There's nothing wrong with that.
Andy Storch [00:17:39]:
And with companies, I think it's the same kind of thing. It's going to vary by the leadership and the history. I'm always amazed when I come across companies that have been around for a long time, and then I speak with somebody who has just moved into a talent development role there, and they're like, yeah, this company has been around for 30 years. They've never invested to talent development before. I'm just getting it started now. That's amazing. How did they survive this long? Which goes to show that it's not essential. If you're paying people fairly, the work is pretty good, people are excited about it.
Andy Storch [00:18:12]:
You don't have to necessarily provide development opportunities for them. But I think when companies grow to a certain size, we'll say they're at three 4500 plus employees, you kind of get into a new phase of, we're not a startup anymore. We've got to keep everybody engaged. And when you look at the data and you talk to people and you listen to interviews, the number one thing that people want now in their careers, especially if you go look at Gen Z, younger millennials, is to know, how am I going to grow in my career? And the number one reason why people leave jobs, according to recent McKinsey studies, is lack of perceived career growth. Right. And so you don't have to provide development opportunities. But if you're not catering to that, if you're not providing development opportunities to people, then there's a good chance they're going to walk out the door. Right now, there might be different objectives.
Andy Storch [00:19:02]:
If you're running an investment bank, you're paying people a ton of money and you're like, look, you work seven days a week and we don't fight any development for you, but we pay you a ton of money and that's why you're here. That's cool as long as everybody understands what the deal is. But most people don't want that, even if given the opportunity. I think people do want the development and growth. I think a lot of companies are really coming on to that. I would bet if we looked at the data, it is trending up towards more companies investing in more development, especially leadership development. More of those what were formerly called soft skills, now that we call them power skills. I first heard Josh Burson say that at a conference.
Andy Storch [00:19:39]:
But companies investing more because they know they have to. If they don't, then people are going to leave and go somewhere else where they can get that development and figure out how they can grow. Another note on that too is I think a lot of companies are moving towards more of sort of a meritocracy type framework, especially in the US, where the corporate ladder, the hierarchy is not quite there anymore. It's not as clear, like how you move up and how you grow. So people have to find other ways to grow, right? Like some type of development, taking on different projects. I just think that the world of work is changing and so companies have to adapt to that and have to be willing to invest in development for people. If they don't, then they're risking losing their people. But it's always going to depend on the company and the leadership.
Matt Gjertsen [00:20:19]:
Yeah, and I think kind of to how you started that it's a function of just the rate of change, too. I think where, like you were saying, with an individual company, maybe that company is just growing really quickly and that's causing the change and that's when they really need it. Or it could be an external factor where just the industry and the skills required are changing really quickly. And so that's causing the investment. But yeah, I definitely take your point that kind of on the converse, on the alternate side of what you were mentioning, there have always been those organizations out there that are very invested very early in learning development and are extremely passionate about it. So I would say just kind of like this talent development or just like the personal development side of things where there's times of concentration and then overall not as much. Definitely seems like I can see your point, that is probably very similar in the corporate world. And you see this firsthand because you're going into a lot of these organizations and helping with this talent development.
Matt Gjertsen [00:21:28]:
And you focus on individuals and what they can do and how they can take charge of their life. Do you ever talk about, or how do you think about the balance between what an individual can do and what an organization can do or what the structure needs to do for an individual? Because like you were just saying, people will leave if they can't find those growth opportunities. And sometimes, no matter how much they want it, the organization isn't going to do it. How do you talk about that when you're talking to people about developing themselves?
Andy Storch [00:21:59]:
Yeah, I mean, people talk about it being kind of like a two way street. There's a lot of companies out there. It's worked out well for me. I published a book called Own your career, Own your Life. And a lot of companies are saying we want our employees to own their careers, right. But that doesn't mean that it's all on them, because there's just as much responsibility on the organization. I think of successful career development now as having three distinct pillars. The first is the organization providing the tools and the pathways for people to be able to move up and around and do different things, whether that's providing learning opportunities.
Andy Storch [00:22:30]:
Maybe they invest in LinkedIn learning or Udemy, or they bring in a consultant like you to design a really cool learning course to develop their people. Those development opportunities are there. There's promotions, that sort of thing. The second column, Pillar, is leaders providing coaching and guidance for people. Because, like I always say, I work with a lot of people in corporate. I want people to own their careers. But you can't very far without support from a manager. Right? It's just the way it works in the corporate world.
Andy Storch [00:22:58]:
So we need our leaders to provide that coaching and guidance and really to focus on enabling and empowering their people to succeed. That's my philosophy on leadership. Working on another book on that right now. And then the third pillar is people, employees actually taking ownership of their own careers, right? So taking full responsibility, being more intentional about what they want to do, where they want to go, and maybe being more proactive as well about having a conversation with their manager to know, hey, Matt, I love the work we're doing. I'd like to talk about where I can go in my career from here. And what I'm finding and hearing is that a lot of organizations feel frustrated because they feel like, oh, we've actually invested in creating all these opportunities, but people are not really taking advantage of them. They don't know about them and they're still leaving and on the way out. They're saying exactly what the McKinsey study shows, that, well, I'm leaving because I didn't really see any career growth opportunities for me.
Andy Storch [00:23:52]:
And they're like, wait a minute, there are opportunities here for you. You're just not taking advantage of them. And so that's where I think companies are doing things in the right way, where they're starting by providing the opportunities and then saying, okay, but you have to own your career. You have to figure out what you like. We don't want to tell you what to do with your career. You need to figure that out for yourself, self. And so for anybody listening, whether you're an entrepreneur or you're an employee, you want to start with, what is it that, who am I and where do I want to go in my career? And can I start designing and developing a career based on that and take full responsibility, like acknowledge, like, yeah, you're going to need help from other people, but ultimately it belongs to you. Nobody cares more about your career than you do, so you've got to be the one to own it.
Andy Storch [00:24:32]:
And that's the message I'm trying to get out to employees, while at the same time I'm encouraging organizations like you work with as well, Matt. Okay. And you need to make sure that those opportunities are there for them and you're creating the right culture. The managers are coaching them and providing the opportunities as well. But the foundation, I think, is in employees owning their careers.
Matt Gjertsen [00:24:52]:
Yeah. Do you see a common reason for that disconnect that you mentioned between when companies are putting something forward and the employees just aren't taking advantage of it, what causes that?
Andy Storch [00:25:04]:
Yeah. So the challenges are, I would say three main challenges there. Number one is that there's lack of awareness overall of what exists out there. So maybe a company invests in creating a talent marketplace, they invest in technology, and they've got this great platform. You can go on and find any kind of job and it tells you the pathway, like, uses AI. There's a lot of platforms out there that do this stuff now, but nobody logs onto it, nobody knows about it. They don't use it.
Matt Gjertsen [00:25:32]:
Right.
Andy Storch [00:25:32]:
Yeah. And people don't really think about that as a possibility. The second challenge is going back to the pillars, like the managers not supporting their people in that because the culture states is like, hold on to your best people so you don't lose them. Right. Which is you and I know, not the right way to manage, but the way a lot of people manage. You're like, I've got good people. I've got a job to get done. I don't want to tell them about other jobs that might be available inside this company.
Andy Storch [00:26:02]:
So you really got to help your managers understand that, look, these people that don't belong to you, you can't keep them forever. You wouldn't want anybody holding you back in your career. So you want to focus on developing people, and it's going to work out for you in the long run because you'll be known as a great leader, and more people want to work for you. And then the third one is the employees are just not looking up and saying, hey, I got to figure out what I want to do. People are drifting, right? They're waiting for other people to tell them what to do or where to go, whether it's their manager, their paRents, whoever else. And people need to wake up, for lack of a better word, and take more ownership and say, okay, I want to get into marketing. I want to get into sales. Let me reach out to some people.
Andy Storch [00:26:41]:
Let me talk to my manager and figure out what it is. And then if I could add one more sort of challenge that's related to that, which is fear. I have this dream that I want to do something, but I'm afraid that I might fail. Or I'm going to tell my manager and he or she is going to laugh at me or tell me, like, no, get back to work. Which that exact thing happened to me in my career. It's one of the best things it ever happened to me, but it hurt in the moment, right? I was working for a big company. I discovered I was doing a job that didn't really fit my strengths very well. I went to my manager one day.
Andy Storch [00:27:13]:
We didn't have the best relationship anyway. I went to my manager one day, and we was like, an analytical job. And I'm starting to realize, like, oh, I'm a people person. I like getting up on stages in front of people. And I said to him one day, like, hey, I think it might be better suited for us both if I could spend more time in the field working with agents and salespeople. And he basically said, no, get back. Your job is this, get back to work. Right? And that was 15 years ago.
Andy Storch [00:27:39]:
I said it was one of the best things that ever happened to me, because in that moment, I realized this is not the place for me. I need to move on. And that led me eventually to where I am today. And I absolutely love where I am today. But I always tell that story, because if he had been like, you know what? You're right. Let's build a career around your strengths and let's keep doing that. I might still be at that company today, right. 15 years later.
Andy Storch [00:28:00]:
You never know. And so I think people are scared because there is a risk that someone's going to shut you down and be like, no, but you also have to realize that that's not the worst thing in the world. In fact, it might point you in a different direction that gets you to an even better place, and you just don't know until you have that conversation.
Matt Gjertsen [00:28:16]:
Yeah, absolutely. On that second one or the third one where people aren't taking charge, kind of the exact thing that you're trying to change them from. Are you seeing that change at all? Because I could imagine when I think back to when I was growing up, so certainly people my age and then definitely people older, there was a very real sense of getting on a path, right? It's like, you do well in high school so you can get into college. You do well in college, so you get a good job. And it was just like this idea of there was a train that was moving and you got on and then it took you places. And I feel like because of everything that's happened really since 2007, there's much less belief in that. And so I wonder, as younger people are coming up, is there more of a feeling that you've noticed that, oh, no, this is something that I need to do. I don't know.
Matt Gjertsen [00:29:16]:
Have you seen that at all?
Andy Storch [00:29:17]:
Well, I think it's more of an awareness of how many different opportunities are out there. Right. You look at for our parents, you pick a career and you stick with that because, A, I don't know what else I'm going to do, and B, it looks bad if I'm jumping around going places.
Matt Gjertsen [00:29:34]:
Right.
Andy Storch [00:29:35]:
You look at where we are in the world today, and people have a lot more awareness of what is possible. The rate of people going to college or feeling like they absolutely have to have a college degree is going down because there are other things. And I'm not poo pooing college, but there's other things you can do, right? You could become a master programmer going on YouTube and watching people every day and then going in a job making really good money, doing computer programming, trade schools and stuff that's getting a lot more publicity. There are people, you go on social media and you see people starting businesses, doing all kinds of things. Influencer. That's a real career. You and I had a conversation about that the other day. With our group.
Andy Storch [00:30:09]:
And so I think people are seeing all these other possibilities. At the same time, I think they're seeing less loyalty from organizations towards employees, and there's less loyalty both ways. Right. And there's more of a drive towards. If you look at the data and read about kind of what Gen Z wants, I think there's more of a movement and a drive towards purpose. And I want to do something that aligns with my purpose, or I want to be involved in something that has a purpose, or I'm part of something that's bigger than what I'm doing. And I think that also causes people to think about, well, what am I doing? And do I enjoy what I'm doing? And if I don't enjoy what I'm doing, maybe there's something else I could be doing, because I know there's a lot of other options out there. All I have to do is go on LinkedIn or call a friend.
Andy Storch [00:30:54]:
It's easier than ever, I wrote in my book, and some people actually got a little bit miffed about this. I think I said it's easier than ever to find a new job and do something different. It doesn't mean that it's easy for you in this circumstance at this moment, but it's never been easier to find out what's available out there and go apply for a different job or see what's possible for you. And so I think awareness is opening up. But that said, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people are still sitting around waiting for someone to bring something to them, whether that's cultural or it's just sort of like innate in them, that they're like, well, I'm afraid to kind of go after what I want because what if I get shut down or rejected or that doesn't exactly exist? And so I still see a huge opportunity in what I'm doing to speak to more people and teach and inspire more people to take ownership so that they start going after those things that they want.
Matt Gjertsen [00:31:48]:
Yeah. Oh, for sure. I think to your point, it's more important than ever to be doing exactly what you're doing, of spreading this message of just how many possibilities there are out there, what you can do if you are deliberate and kind of take charge of your life, own your career, own your life.
Andy Storch [00:32:07]:
And by the way, for anybody listening to this, sometimes it's just simple as tell somebody else what's on your mind, what you're thinking about doing with your career, get some feedback. Somebody might be able to support you. One thing I've learned over the years is nobody can help you if you don't tell them what you want. And so I run a program based on my book, a cohort program. You and I were talking about it before, and I'm running a cohort through it right now. And the first week, this woman said, well, I work in. I don't remember what. She's in some type of project management in a software company.
Andy Storch [00:32:34]:
But she's like, I'm really passionate about Dei. Diversity, equity, inclusion. I'd love to work in that field one day. And I said, I have a ton of contacts in Dei. I'll make an intro for you if you want. She was like, oh, my God, that'd be great. I just made an intro last night to a guy I know who made a similar move, by the way, military guy who moved into, I think, Navy, moved into Dei, into corporate, and then later into Dei because he was passionate about it. And I just had it in my head right away.
Andy Storch [00:32:59]:
This would be a good person to talk to. I never in a million years would make that intro if she didn't bring that up right and say what's on her mind, like, speak into existence what she's interested in doing. That's how people help you when you are willing to be vulnerable and tell them what your dream is.
Matt Gjertsen [00:33:17]:
Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, on that note, as we kind of in the spirit of helping people find this new passion or find some new way to get through, get in a new direction in their life, as you can tell, books have been a big help for me personally in doing that and find that new direction. And then it sounds like podcasts also were a big part for you. So is there one book or podcast that somebody should read or listen to.
Andy Storch [00:33:50]:
And why there's so many? And I really do think it depends on the goals, and I'll exclude my own. I have a book and two podcasts, which you can go look up, of course, But I would say from my perspective, two that have been really helpful for me on the book side that have really, I think, changed my life. One is the Daily Stoic, which know daily Stoic quotes. Know Stoic philosophy from Ryan Holiday. I read that every single day. It's essentially my Bible. I think studying stoicism for some people, if you're a Christian, like, studying the Bible is equally as helpful. But studying stoicism has made a profound impact on my life in terms of my approach to mindset and how I think about things and approach life and then related to that, I would also suggest the book Mindset, the New Psychology of Success by Dr.
Andy Storch [00:34:43]:
Carol Dweck, Stanford Professor. Reading that book absolutely changed my life. And I think it's important to read just to really reflect on the way you're approaching life, your mindset towards things. I realized when I read that in 2016 that I had grown up with a very fixed mindset. And as Dr. Dweck posited in the book, People with a fixed mindset believe that you're either good at something you're not. And people with a fixed mindset tend to shy away from challenging situations because they're afraid of failure. And that was me.
Andy Storch [00:35:12]:
I quit playing baseball when I was 15 because I was afraid to go out for the high school baseball team because I didn't think I was going to make it. I look back at that today and I'm like, why? Why wouldn't I just give myself a chance? Let the coach tell me I'm not good enough. How stupid is that? But that's the way I thought when I was 15 years old. And now since reading that book, I'm like, whatever's on my mind that I want to do, I'm going to go try it. I'll start a podcast, start a conference, publish a book, start a membership community. Who cares? And if it fails, it's not that bad. I learned something from, and I get to go do something else. And what I've learned is our biggest fear is that we're going to fail at something.
Andy Storch [00:35:50]:
We're afraid of failure because we're afraid that people are going to judge us or laugh at us. And that doesn't usually happen. And if people are doing that, they're not your friends, they're not the people that you want in your circle anyway, right?
Matt Gjertsen [00:36:00]:
Yes.
Andy Storch [00:36:01]:
And so those are the two books I'd mentioned. And along those lines, I'm a huge fan. From a podcast perspective, anything Gary Vee, Gary Vaynerchuk. I think he speaks to a lot of the things we're talking about naturally. And when you really dig into his content, it's just so encouraging on curiosity, growth, mindset, kindness, empathy. Like all the things that I stand for as well. Just a big, big fan of his.
Matt Gjertsen [00:36:25]:
Yeah, no, as well. Great stuff. Yeah. And I think, yeah. The number one lesson that I took from what you were just saying is don't self eliminate.
Andy Storch [00:36:35]:
Don't take yourself out of the game way.
Matt Gjertsen [00:36:37]:
Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so for you, we've probably touched on, maybe you've mentioned this already, but for you, when you think back on your life, what's the one skill that has helped you be the most successful?
Andy Storch [00:36:53]:
I would say number one is curiosity and number two is empathy. And they go together. But curiosity really to look at every situation and be like, I'm curious about that. I want to learn more about that and try not to write things off or judge right away. I think that curiosity in general is the number one skill that is useful for anybody in any career role, whatever it is. And then for me specifically, I think empathy or EQ has been like the engine that has allowed me to build such a big network and so many great relationships with people just by caring about other people and sort of like stepping in their shoes and just thinking about what it's like to be them and just connecting with people has been just incredibly helpful for me.
Matt Gjertsen [00:37:36]:
Awesome. Excellent. And then final question for you is you're someone who goes out and works with a lot of organizations. You've seen the inside of a lot of different organizations. What do you see as the most common opportunity for organizations to improve their talent development practices?
Andy Storch [00:37:54]:
Oh, man, you're in it with a tough one here. The biggest, most common opportunity for organizations to improve. It's simple, but I would say, one, a commitment to investing in development of people, even in the hard times. And we see a lot of organizations do that, some that are not. And then two, really go out and get to know people and what they want, where they want to grow, what they want to develop in, what skills you're going to need in the future and start to build towards that, instead of just doing whatever everybody else is doing, but get curious about what people really want, what's going to be beneficial to them. And this is like the best talent development professionals that you and I know. When I ask them about what's really allowed them to be successful in their roles, they usually tell me some type of story about how before they dove in and started building stuff, they go out on a listening tour, interviewing people, asking lots of questions to find out, okay, what is the true need here? What's going to give me my biggest bang for my buck, for my first project, to really prove myself to the leadership team. And so I would say willing to invest and then find out what people really want and what they need and what's going to move the proverbial needle, as they say.
Matt Gjertsen [00:39:04]:
Yeah, awesome. Excellent. Yeah, I think that's listening is a big thing that more of us, including myself, need to do for. Absolutely. Awesome. Well, Andy, it has been so great having you on today for all the listeners. If you're not following Andy, make sure to follow. I'll give links to everything in the show, notes, links to the podcast, links to the LinkedIn, anywhere else in particular that you would want people to reach out to you if they want to get in touch with you?
Andy Storch [00:39:36]:
Well, I'm all over the place. My website is andystorts.com. Sort of everything is on there, but I also have some free bonus resources. If you don't want to go buy the book on Amazon or listen to the podcast. I have a summary of the five steps to owning your career, as well as some other resources like my morning routine and the top five most common career mistakes. That's if you go to andystorts.com. Bonus. You put in your email, you can download all that stuff and you get the summary of it all.
Andy Storch [00:40:03]:
You don't even have to do hardly any other work.
Matt Gjertsen [00:40:06]:
Excellent. Awesome. Well, thank you again for being here today. We really appreciate it and I hope you have a great rest of your day.
Andy Storch [00:40:13]:
Thank you.
Matt Gjertsen [00:40:14]:
Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you liked the discussion, make sure to hit like and subscribe so you never miss an episode. As a reminder, if your team is struggling keeping up with the training development demands of your organization, we want to help. Better Everyday Studios is a full service instructional design team that can help you with everything from ideation to actual content creation and delivery. Please reach out to us using the link in the episode notes below. Have a great day.
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