Enhancing Talent Development by Embracing the Future of Work with Al Dea
Episode Overview
Welcome back to another episode of "Making Better"! In today's episode, we have a very special guest, Al Dea, a talent and leadership development consultant and facilitator. Join our host, Matt Gjertsen, as they dive deep into the ever-evolving world of work and how organizations can create conditions for collaboration between humans and non-humans, such as AI and technology. Al shares valuable insights on the importance of teams, the need for good business acumen, and why empathy is key to successful learning initiatives. They also discuss the shift from episodic training to continuous enablement and the vital role of talent and development in navigating the changing landscape of work. Tune in and discover how talent and development can inspire growth, contribute to organizational goals, and shape the future of work. Let's get started and make better together!
About Al Dea
Al Dea is a leadership development consultant, facilitator, and podcast host. He works with organizations to attract and retain talent and develop their next generation of leaders. He lives in Los Angeles, CA and is The Host of The Edge of Work Podcast. I have been getting to know Al over the past few months as part of the Talent Development Think Tank. Through both his work and his podcast he gets some really great exposure to the trends of Talent Development. Let’s get started…
Full Transcript
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Al Dea [00:00:00]:
It's as much about what the organization wants is what the individual employee needs, right? And I also just think that one of the things and I know anyone who works in training or talent is going to roll their eyes when I say this, but the reality of it is that a lot of times our employees, they don't feel like they have the time, right? And so to do some of these things and so sometimes that immediacy or kind of the move to things that are a little bit more immediate. Like, yes, it is the reality of the environment, but also in some cases, employees feel like they need stuff that is much more smaller because of just they feel like they don't have the time or maybe they hello and welcome.
Matt Gjertsen [00:00:41]:
To the Making Better podcast, where we talk about how to make individuals, teams and organizations better. My name is Matt Jurtson, the founder of Better Everyday Studios, and I am so excited today to welcome Al D. Now, I've been getting to know Al for a couple of months now. If you've ever heard of him before, you may have seen him on stage, you may have listened to his podcast, The Edge of Work, and he is just such an amazing voice in the talent development space around what is happening with the work world and where we're going with terms of how we engage in the workplace. During the discussion today, we talk about a lot of amazing things. We start off talking about kind of how talent development is changing what employees are looking out of talent development. And then we kind of end by thinking about where talent development is going in the future. I'm sure you will get a lot out of this conversation.
Matt Gjertsen [00:01:38]:
If you are new to the podcast, I would really love it if you would take a second to subscribe to the channel. And if you've been here before then please share this podcast with at least one other person because that is, after all, how we grow. I can't tell you how much it means to me. So with that, let's get started with Al D. Al, welcome to the Making Better podcast. How are you doing today, Matt?
Al Dea [00:02:05]:
It's great to be here. It's Friday morning. It's sunny. It's in Southern California. Life's pretty good. I got no complaints.
Matt Gjertsen [00:02:11]:
Yeah, I'm definitely the same way. I'm in SoCal. And so it's very nice and sunny here. I'm really excited to have you on because I think you've gotten a really great perspective in kind of talent development, organizational development, from the work that you do. We've gotten to know each other over the last couple of months, but for the listeners, people who don't know you, if you could give kind of a quick rundown of how has your career been, how have you gotten to this point?
Al Dea [00:02:41]:
Sure, happy to do that. So today my job is to be a talent and leadership development consultant and facilitator. And all that really means is that I help organizations develop and grow their people. And how I got here is that I started my career working in management consulting for Deloitte Consulting, doing a lot of work at the intersection of technology and organizational change and really helping leaders build the culture and the leadership required for change. And then I did some similar work when I went to salesforce and I spent a lot of time helping organizations, really trying to evolve and upskill their organizations to develop the skills needed to thrive in a digital workplace. But the through line through all of that was how do we grow and develop organizations that can unleash the power and potential of their people? And so the work I realized that I enjoyed the most really was working with organizations to create cultures and programs that could help their people perform at the highest of levels and really tap into all of that skill and knowledge and capacity that they had. And so for the past two and a half years or so, that's what I've been doing through my own talent and leadership development consultancy. But I always and will always believe in the potential and power of people and I get to live that each and every day through the work that I do, which I think is pretty fun and rewarding.
Matt Gjertsen [00:04:03]:
Yeah, absolutely. It's one of the things that always draws me to our work as well because in any organization, it really doesn't matter what problem that organization is trying to solve. The hardest problem is the people part. The hardest problem is getting the right people together, getting them to work smoothly together. And it's funny because in your space, in your history, you've jumped between a couple of different things and some people might look at it and see it as kind of bouncing around, but there's that through line there that really ties it all together.
Al Dea [00:04:38]:
It is, and I appreciate you acknowledging that and noticing that. And I think the two pieces I would add to what you just said are, number one, the importance of leaders in those organizations in terms of the conditions they set that enable the people to thrive. Right? And I know that is probably something you think about a lot in terms of the kind of work that you do. And I have always thought and believed in the power of leadership, formal or informal. And I think that's like one thing. But I think the other thing that I think about a lot is like, look, nobody wakes up in the morning and wants to go to work each day to think like, you know what, I really hope I do a crappy job today. Right. Nobody does that.
Al Dea [00:05:15]:
That's the one thing we all have in common. We all do want to be successful. And so part of, I think, the work that I do, and I'm sure maybe this might align with you is really also thinking about, well, how do we remove some of that friction, some of those barriers, and how do. We put interventions in place so that people can do the thing that they want to do, which is to do a good job.
Matt Gjertsen [00:05:34]:
Yeah, exactly. It's all about enablement. It really is about removing those barriers, removing friction. So kind of diving in on that piece of how we do that. I do think know the talent development, the organizational development space, I'm sure it's constantly evolving, constantly changing. But I think Josh Burson recently did a pretty good podcast on kind of like the history of HR about how it started very programmatically. And then it's only in the last few decades that HR has really taken on all of these responsibilities of leader development, people development, and even skill development, which traditionally was much more out in the business and now it's falling more and more on these central organizations. You have a great podcast and newsletter, The Edge of Work, and you recently quoted Albert Einstein saying, you cannot use an old map to explore a new world.
Matt Gjertsen [00:06:30]:
And I loved that quote and thought of it so much. When we think of this idea of we live in a new world, talent development is always changing, HR is always changing, and then the world of work is certainly always changing about the last couple of years. So what do you see are the big differences between the old map of how we thought about talent development versus the world that we find ourselves in today?
Al Dea [00:06:56]:
Yeah, that quote resonates so strongly with me, and I found it's resonated with a lot with other people. And I love that you asked that question. So a couple of things I would say I listened to that podcast with Josh Burshin when he went through the kind of the history of it. And I do think something that he said I think is relevant and spot on. If you think about kind of moving from this idea of we quote, unquote, do training or we put on programs to really thinking about here is how we enable the business to succeed. And it is moving kind of from looking at something as something that is episodic or maybe as a one off to something that is holistic or continuous right, and that is threaded throughout an organization. And just one specific example of this, I'm coming off, as I was telling you, I was at LinkedIn Talent Connect, which is a conference for talent acquisition and talent development leaders. And one of the common themes that came up, I went to maybe three or four sessions all around a topic of career mobility and internal mobility.
Al Dea [00:07:54]:
And again, this idea of once upon a time in many organizations, and I would say still in some organizations, internal mobility was thought about as a program or a project that you do some of the examples I saw there. What was really interesting and really cool was that it wasn't just a program like it truly was. Here's how we see this thing that we do driving our business forward. And oh, by the way, it's not just talent development leading the way, it's working with talent acquisition, it's working with learning, it's working with workforce planning, it's working with development. And so I don't necessarily to be clear, I was not around 50 years ago working in talent development. So I can't claim to know the answer to this, but I'm not necessarily sure that in that old world that was always the case or always how things worked. So that's one thing. I think the other thing is that and this, I think also maybe tracks a little bit with what Josh is saying.
Al Dea [00:08:51]:
I think the classic kind of movement from being a order taker or a to do list checker to really thinking strategically and in a consultative way around how can we make sure that what we're doing isn't just something that is a checkbox on our list of things to do, but is actually driving some kind of outcome that we agree is the step in the right direction. And I think, I guess what I also mean by this is that I think more than ever, anyone who works in talent or work development, they are an orchestrator of change, right? I mean, fundamentally. And the reason why though, and I think what this maps back to is really in the quote, you can't use an old map to explore a new world. And this is a new world of work. And because work is changing, talent at Norg, development really plays a role in helping us not only see what that is, but really lead us on the journey there. And some of that maps back to talent programs, some of that maps back to learning, some of that maps back to upskilling. But the reality of it is to the point where we started with this, the one common through line in all of our organizations is the talent that we have. And so talent and development is helping us think about the role that talent plays as the world of work changes and then leading hopefully the rest of us in terms of helping the rest of our organization to see how we can get there.
Matt Gjertsen [00:10:10]:
Yeah, it is interesting to me. There's a lot of interesting things that you just said there. But one of the things that I have always found kind of surprising is even within, I mean, every organization is different, but if you think about all the different elements that traditionally sit inside, kind of the HR function of you have traditional HR comp and benefits, learning and development and recruiting, there's certainly many, many more. But those are like even at the simplest level, you're going to kind of have those four elements and how disparate those four elements so often are in terms of not working together. So we'll have recruiting which is purely in the now focused looking externally, trying to bring in outside talent into the business. You have comp and benefits which in the worst cases are just like solely focused on how do we drive down the cost of our talent. You have HR which really has their finger on the pulse of the organization at this moment of where the pains are. And then you have learning which is maybe traditionally, like we said, very programmatic and focused on these things.
Matt Gjertsen [00:11:22]:
When we're all trying to solve the same problem, we're just bringing different tools to that problem. I'm sure you've seen places where it's working really? Where when it's working well, it's like working together.
Al Dea [00:11:37]:
I think you're absolutely right. I think that is often kind of one of the interesting things. I don't know if you've had this experience, but when I'll talk to someone who works, roughly speaking in the field of talent broadly and you kind of ask them what do you do or what is your role, kind of and some of that is just the nature of their organization and what's there or what's not. Obviously, if you're working at 100,000 person organization, the answer is going to be much different than if you're at 100 person organization. But it is interesting to see how they define it. But to what you said, I think that is one thing that collectively I think within broader HR, I think we can continue to get better at and continuing to kind of evolve with is figuring out for the work that we are trying to do who's on first, right? Like who are the right people to have in here and how do we make sure that everyone is growing in the right direction but also adding and contributing the thing that they're uniquely qualified to do to help us get towards that goal. I think that that's kind of what it takes. I think particularly once you're an organization over, let's say like a couple of hundred people, you kind of need that because if not, it's going to be really hard to really drive impact right at scale.
Matt Gjertsen [00:12:53]:
Yeah, no, I think that's totally right. Another thing that you said earlier was you mentioned how you weren't in the work world 50 years ago so we can't fully understand where it was. But I think both of us have probably experienced the vestigial effects of that kind of work. And I'd be interested since now you work with so many organizations do you run into that a lot of people continuing to think programmatically versus continuously and kind of how do you try to shift that mindset to thinking about it in a different way?
Al Dea [00:13:28]:
Yeah, what was interesting, I was just leading a discussion yesterday with a software company and their HR team. They brought maybe about 200 of their practitioners and the broader topic was AI and HR, which separate podcast, but fascinating discussion. But more specifically, one of the things that we were talking about and kind of like having perhaps a dialogue on, was this idea of agility and being agile. And kind of one of the things that we talked about was this idea that for those who aren't as familiar the Agile methodology is a software development methodology that really prioritizes releasing small features and testing. And iterating with them versus trying to produce this big monolithic thing all at once in terms of reducing risk, improving speed to market and delivering a better quality product. And so one of the conversations that we were having was around, how can we, as HR professionals, start to, even though we don't work in software development, be more agile and be more nimble to set a strategic goal, but then to iteratively, work towards it, versus trying to come up with our once a year program and the like? And so, yeah, there's definitely some old mindsets at play here in terms of, well, this is how we've always kind of done it, in terms of how we've traditionally done things. And that certainly still kind of exists. And also I think that there is kind of sometimes an acknowledgment.
Al Dea [00:14:57]:
All of us are experts in our own domain, right, to a varying degree. And we should honor that. And I think there is a realization that is coming to a lot of people that in particular in an organization now, you kind of need the buy in and support of others for what you're trying to do. And I think that's where sometimes the programmatic efforts fall short. When you don't have that consistent kind of support, buy in and credibility from your cross functional stakeholders, from the business, it's going to be really hard to have a longer lasting kind of impact. And then I think the last piece of this, which we harped on a little bit, is just the change that we're going through where it's almost like this. It's like every time you get somewhere, there's another moving target and then the target gets moved and the target gets moved. And so it's like even if you wanted to do something programmatic, get it all 100% right, have all the checkboxes ticked and tied, it's like by the time you get there and you release it and you spend eight months on it, it's like, why? Yeah, exactly.
Al Dea [00:15:57]:
So those are some of the things that often come up. I don't know if you've seen anything similar from your own work, but those are at least what I've seen on my end.
Matt Gjertsen [00:16:04]:
Oh, absolutely. I think that's what I was seeing. The organizations, I mean, I had a great podcast with the head of talent development from Mission Cloud a few months ago and she was talking about, I think I titled the episode Just Launch It because that's exactly how she has grown. So she is sat in this organization. It's a tech startup that grew quickly. She got brought in very early, which was a credit to them, where there were like 100 employees and hiring somebody into talent development, that's really amazing. And then scaling past 300, 400 employees and the only way they've been able to do it is by really iteratively thinking about all of their programs and how they develop everything. So I think that is the way people are being successful and it's being driven, one, I definitely think by the change in the business landscape, but I also think it's being driven by a change in what employees are looking for too.
Matt Gjertsen [00:17:07]:
And obviously from the organizational perspective, it's always going to be easier if I can just sit back and say, okay, it's October, it's time to start. We're going to spend the next three months revamping the 2024 Leadership program and then we launch it in January. That's always going to be easier. But to your point, it's not what people are expecting or what they're looking for anymore. And do you see a difference in kind of what employees are looking for from talent development versus what organizational leaders are looking for in talent development generally?
Al Dea [00:17:44]:
Well, I think what you're hitting on maybe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but also is just art what we also just know to be true as everyday consumers, right, in terms of our expectations, out of the organizations that we associate with, even outside of learning for that, forget talent for that matter. Right?
Matt Gjertsen [00:18:03]:
Yeah. The number one place I think of, I think the driver, it's just like when Coke says their greatest competition is know, it's like our greatest competition is YouTube or like that's the environment that.
Al Dea [00:18:19]:
We'Re living, I think, I think that is the thing that stands out the most and part of it too. Also, again, I do think that is what you're saying is true. And I also think just within the context of for organizations in particular that work in fast changing environments or when there are a lot of changes and shifts and shocks, the six month lead up to rolling out something. It's as much about what the organization wants, is what the individual employee needs. Right? Yeah. And I also just think that one of the things and I know anyone who works in training or talent is going to roll their eyes when I say this, but the reality of it is that a lot of times our employees, they don't feel like they have the time right, to do some of these things. And so sometimes that immediacy or kind of the move to things that are a little bit more immediate. Like, yes, it is the reality of the environment, but also in some cases, employees feel like they need stuff that is much more smaller because of just they feel like they don't have the time or maybe they don't actually have the time in some cases to consume what it is that we're providing them.
Al Dea [00:19:29]:
And that is a whole conversation, I'm sure that we could find many at podcast events to talk about. But I do think it speaks to this broader idea and thing of just the pace of work today. It just feels like it moves so fast and there is really this need to figure out, well, how do we get certain things quickly to people so that they can continue to get whatever they need to get done in order to be productive and effective in their role. And whether that is right or wrong, reasonable people can agree to disagree. But I just think it's a reality that a lot of us who are employees face in our roles in work today.
Matt Gjertsen [00:20:06]:
Yeah. How do you think of kind of the balance of that though? Because as much as I 100% agree with you, I remember intensive programs are always going to be kind of more effective in some ways or more likely to really push change versus just kind of dripping things out. Where do you think that balance is between delivering fast, delivering at the pace or at the content size that can be consumed versus but we're trying to make a manager here. This is a first time manager and we need to make them a good one and that's going to take time. Where does that balance?
Al Dea [00:20:46]:
Yeah, well, I think with anything the opportunity is always between the polarities and the tension is in the polarities. Right. And so let's give a real concrete example of this. I was recently talking with a handful of talent development leaders who run manager training for sales organizations and one of the pieces of things that was coming up was that right now they cannot get anyone in sales to come to training. And given the macroeconomic environment and just how some companies are doing kind of the messaging around that is things are not necessarily going to plan, things are not really going great. I don't necessarily have time to be focusing on training when I need to figure out how to hit my quota. Right.
Matt Gjertsen [00:21:31]:
Makes sense. Yeah.
Al Dea [00:21:32]:
So again, the tension is in those polarities. Is it true that we need our in order for a sales manager to be effective, there are certain things that they probably need to know in order to be able to do that. Absolutely. Is it true that not everyone has all those skills right now? Yes. Is it true that even the ones who do probably need some more practice and some more coaching? Absolutely. And is it also true that hitting our number this quarter is really, really important to be able to be successful in this business? Yes. And that's the challenge. Right.
Al Dea [00:22:04]:
And I don't think both of those things can be true. But that's also, I think where that partnership and really that alignment and getting other people on board to what it is that we're doing is really important because and I wrote this in a different article, but I still think it applies investing in people and being productive don't have to be mutually exclusive things. Both of those things can work together. But it does require us as a profession to really think about how do we build relationships and how do we inspire others to want to work with us in ways that allow us to navigate those tension points and polarities in ways that work for both of us. Right, so I agreed with you. There's no silver bullet of an answer. But I do think it is upon us to really think strategically about how do we make sure that the value of what we're doing is seen and aligned with and then also that we're aligned and understanding of some of the tensions that the people at the other end of this are facing. Because that may cause us to think differently about how we might try to structure this or how we might put together an opportunity or program, et cetera.
Matt Gjertsen [00:23:13]:
Yeah, I think you hit it on the head there of having that empathy and really understanding the business. I recently gave a talk where I think I said asking how do we get the organization to care about learning? Is the wrong question. We have to ask, how do we get learning to care about the organization? How do you make sure you're delivering on the things that they want? And to really highlight that, you're spot on with your point of they shouldn't be mutually exclusive of developing people or performance. There was a recent study from McKinsey where they were talking about people centric organizations, and they compared three groups of organizations of organizations that were performance focused, organizations that were people focused, and then organizations that kind of split the difference and focused on blending the two of them and how the one that blended the two of them got kind of the best of both worlds and surpassed either side of those things. So it really isn't an either or. It is a blending them together. It sounds like you saw that report.
Al Dea [00:24:17]:
Yeah. Just as a maximum, I think, of life. I think that there's so much more to life than the black and the white. There's a lot of stuff in that gray area, and I think this is one that kind of falls into that bucket, for sure.
Matt Gjertsen [00:24:30]:
Yeah, absolutely. So kind of on that you're talking about tensions and working between those different tensions and using that to really push you forward in your work, whether it's back at your time as a consultant or your time now. What are some of the most interesting changes you've seen organizations undertake regarding talent or organizational development that are really pushing them forward? You don't have to call anybody out, but what are the great, the best things that you're seeing.
Al Dea [00:24:59]:
Sure. So something that I've been noticing, which I think has been really interesting, is that I've seen some really interesting ways in which people are organizations are trying to inculcate new leadership development programs or even manager training for that example. So just like a specific example of this, traditionally a lot of companies, you get promoted to manager, you go to manager training. And I'm not saying that doesn't happen anymore, that definitely still happens. But what I've been seeing more or I've seen a couple of really good examples with and across companies of all sizes, is that instead of trying to just do that, they've been using and finding a burning platform to inculcate what they want, either out of the culture or behaviors from leaders, which then flows into oh, by the way, this also means that we're going to refresh our manager training or we're going to roll out manager training. And so instead of just saying like we're going to do manager training, it's like we're going under a cultural transformation because of the fact that we are a startup and now we're a big company and we really need to ground ourselves in who we are and the types of behaviors that we want. And so what that means is that we're going to start asking and codifying that these are the behaviors that we want to see out of our leaders because it needs to start with us in order for this culture to achieve the desired state that we want. And oh, by the way, eventually it will make its way down into manager training.
Al Dea [00:26:27]:
Right? Yeah, kind of like jokingly. It's kind of like if you ever have to feed a dog like medicine, like putting it wrapped in salami. But what jokes aside, but what that is to me is that it's an acknowledgment that the business and the needs of the business are what they are and then aligning what you're doing and your talent programs to them in a way. And the goal or the output of that or the outcome of that is that you are making it holistic and continuous versus just treating it as a programmatic piece. So that's I would say one thing that is coming up that I find interesting. I think the other thing that I find interesting really is just this. I think if we take, again like manager training as another example or just I would say I've seen a couple of companies, I'll call it, think about it this in terms of manager effectiveness, right? And I've even seen a couple of people with manager effectiveness roles. And yes, that is manager training.
Al Dea [00:27:25]:
But what that actually is, is that if you think about managers, it's almost treating the effectiveness and whatever business metric so effectiveness, engagement, productivity of managers as almost like a, it's almost like a toolbox, if you will, right. And in it you have a whole bunch of tools.
Matt Gjertsen [00:27:45]:
One.
Al Dea [00:27:46]:
Of those tools is manager training. One of those tools is hiring. One of those tools is performance Management. One of those tools is the employee engagement survey. One of those tools is your diversity, equity, inclusion efforts. And so, again, this is just another example of trying to be more holistic about what it is that you're doing. So yes, there still is the manager training, but it's more just this acknowledgment that, again, as you and I both know, even though we are in the field of training, training alone isn't always, very rarely always the answer. And in a lot of cases, certainly.
Matt Gjertsen [00:28:20]:
Not the single answer.
Al Dea [00:28:21]:
It shouldn't be the single answer. And so it's more of this move in this understanding of like, okay, we have other tools at our disposal. And what's also great about that is that in some organizations, what that also means is that you don't have to do it alone. Like in some organizations, you can go to OD, you can go to L. D. You can go to your Dei team to kind of go on the journey with you. And so that just makes what you're doing much more effective and much more powerful because you're coming in as a team versus having to do it on your own.
Matt Gjertsen [00:28:46]:
Yeah, that's really interesting what you said about the manager effectiveness kind of roles, because I have not seen that. But it really reminds me of sales enablement. It's not sales training, it's sales enablement. And that involves the training. It involves the systems, it might involve the compensation of how do you structure incentives. It really signals to me this idea that I think keeps coming up and is becoming just ever more apparent. Is it's a team effort, it's not one group. It's really working together to drive the outcome of better performance for the organization.
Al Dea [00:29:24]:
Right, well, and I think it underscores what I think was always there, but I think is more true today. The nature of our work is so interdependent and interconnected. Right. Even if I think about sometimes functions or roles which traditionally have been thought about as solo endeavors, and so I think about perhaps maybe software engineering or sales. Right. You could probably make an argument that for a salesperson, it's like they can kind of see a little bit of a direct line between an activity and an outcome. Right. If they make these many dials and these many phone calls, they might be able to get a sale.
Al Dea [00:30:03]:
Right. But if you talk to some of the best salespeople out there, at least in my experience, some of the best salespeople I've ever worked with, they would be the first to tell you that they cannot work alone, particularly if they want to sell more. Right. And particularly, again, if you're a larger organization, they have to rely on so many other people in order to be effective. Right. And so I think that is also true for the nature of the work that we do. Right. It's not just us.
Al Dea [00:30:28]:
And when we accept that, and we accept that there is interdependency, we might be able to go more. We can maybe perhaps make more of an impact when we do bring other people along on the journey and get their buy in and support.
Matt Gjertsen [00:30:39]:
Yeah, that's come up a lot in this conversation. It's come up a lot in past conversations. Is that just kind of the future? I don't know. From what you're seeing, from the conversations you're having, the organization you're in, where do you think talent development continues to go over the next five to ten years? I mean, I know there's AI, there's the technology piece, but just in terms of kind of like the mission, how we're seen inside of organizations, how we meet the needs of the organizations, is it just that continuing to be kind of matrixed and really building those relationships or is there anything else that stands out to you?
Al Dea [00:31:16]:
I think that certainly is part of it. And again, I have to acknowledge my bias because again, I wasn't around 50 years ago. I do know that organizational psychologists have been around for a long time. But I do feel like and I don't know if it's just because of COVID or maybe it's just because of where we are today, I'm really glad that we're actually starting for the first time to pay more attention to kind of the infrastructure of how we work and how work gets done. And again, I'm sure if you're an organizational psychologist, you've been doing this for 50 years. I'm sorry that I wasn't around to see some of your work in the beginning. But because the nature of work is changing so much, I do see what we do as being really important to understand. If we agree that work is changing or we agree that these are the ways and the world of work broadly is how do we make sure that we're creating those conditions so that our talent that we have can work at its best.
Al Dea [00:32:16]:
And in some cases over time, that will also mean that those conditions are going to require some non humans that are working with us right in terms of what we're already seeing with AI and technology. And so I think that will be something that we pay more attention to. I think there have been people who have been doing work, a lot of work, on how do we have high performing teams, but it does kind of feel like more and more that the work really does get kind of done on teams these days. And team can kind of be it can mean a lot of different things because you could argue too, even if you are an organization that is using a lot of contractors or remote workers who maybe are solo by themselves while they're still maybe working on a team. And so I do think that is something that is coming up quite a bit, but to kind of get to what you're speaking to, and I think it still directionally aligns with what Josh Burston was saying in his future of HR. I do think it does require a little bit more of a mindset and a skill set around that consultative approach. In terms of having those soft skills. I don't think having good business acumen will never go out of style.
Al Dea [00:33:26]:
I think it's incumbent upon any professional, but I think for the nature of the work that we do. And yeah, one last thread on this. It was interesting. I was talking with a CHRO, and one of the interesting things that she said to me was that when she's on the executive leadership team and with their CEO, he does these quarterly business reviews with all the members of a C suite. And one of the observations that she said was that she is the only person when they do those reviews who has to go to everyone else's review. And the reason why and the point that she was making to me is that her function is the one function that touches every single other function, like more so than the other ones that are there. And the point that she's trying to make is like, if I don't understand what those leaders need, but more specifically what their talent needs, I'm going to be at a disadvantage. And so I'm obviously biased in this, but I do really think that we have an opportunity to really own that and to take an opportunity there to really help shape not just where the organization is headed, but the role specifically our people really play within it.
Matt Gjertsen [00:34:34]:
Totally. I think you're 100% right that the ground is certainly laid for if an individual chooses to take up that challenge, you can be the most connected and impactful person in an organization. Because you're right. Talent development, learning, it not only touches every part of the business, but it touches the entire employee lifecycle in every part of the business. Yes. Which can just make it really impactful.
Al Dea [00:35:07]:
Couldn't set a better self. Yeah.
Matt Gjertsen [00:35:10]:
Awesome. Well, as we kind of close up here, a couple of rapid fire questions for you. I as you can tell, I read a lot of books. I'm always looking for more books. So if you had to pick one book, and if you don't have a book, if you want to suggest a podcast or a video or anything like that, that's certainly fair game as well. But if you had to pick one book that people should read, what is it and why?
Al Dea [00:35:34]:
So I would say the book I would pick is a book called Love is the Killer App. It's by a gentleman by the name of Tim Sanders. He's been a longtime author and keynote speaker. He's currently the VP of Talent at Upwork. And the best way I can kind of describe the book is that it is a book that can teach you that you can be a leader by being smart, kind and generous and a good person. And I read that book when I was maybe a freshman or sophomore in high school, and it fundamentally kind of shaped the person that I'm trying to be each and every day.
Matt Gjertsen [00:36:15]:
That's fantastic. I love the fact that Gary vaynerchuk has become a pretty big voice out there in the entrepreneur space to kind of counteract the I don't know, you could call it the elon's and the steve jobs kind of view of leadership, which, not to know, they're just different views, but of the head of VaynerMedia's HR department is called chief heart officer.
Al Dea [00:36:39]:
Yeah, Claude. She's great.
Matt Gjertsen [00:36:41]:
Yeah, it's very much a heart first kind of organization. That's fantastic. So then on the skill front, what do you think is the most important skill that people need to be successful in the world today?
Al Dea [00:36:57]:
I have a tie. It's a tie between self awareness and curiosity. And if I were to make the case for self awareness, I think if you know who you are, or even, for that matter like the things that you are good at and you can find a way to use that each and every day. You're never going to have a shortage of opportunities coming your way. And you're never going to have a shortage of people who want to work with you. And so that will be, I think, really good for any type of employee. And then curiosity in the sense of I think that the more we can be humble and accept that there are probably more things that we don't know and that we do, but we have a willingness to go and explore, I think we're just going to find more solutions and be more creative about what those solutions are.
Matt Gjertsen [00:37:42]:
Yeah, and there's a pretty strong big overlap of a venue, for sure. Curiosity or self awareness is inward directed curiosity.
Al Dea [00:37:51]:
That's a good point.
Matt Gjertsen [00:37:52]:
Yeah, that's great. Fantastic. And then final question, what is the most common mistake you see organizations making with respect to talent development who.
Al Dea [00:38:07]:
Treat I would say what we kind of started with this, with treating it as something that does something programmatically or episodically and not treating it as something that is holistic and strategic.
Matt Gjertsen [00:38:18]:
Yeah, no, 100%. I would definitely agree with that. Well, I love that answer. It's absolutely fantastic. If people want to get to know you more, find more from you, where should they reach out to? Where should they look?
Al Dea [00:38:30]:
They can find me on LinkedIn. Probably the easiest place. My name is Al. A l last name is Ddea. And they certainly can check out the Edge of Work podcast wherever they get their podcasts.
Matt Gjertsen [00:38:41]:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for the conversation today, Al. I got a lot out of it. I'm certain our listeners got a lot out of it. So thank you so much. It's Friday. Happy Friday. Have a great weekend and I'm sure we will chat more in the future.
Al Dea [00:38:54]:
Matt, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Matt Gjertsen [00:38:56]:
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