Shaping Mindset to Improve Performance with Heli Nehama Ozery
Episode Overview
Welcome to another episode of "Making Better"! In today's episode, we have the privilege of speaking with the exceptional Heli Nehama Ozery, founder and CEO of Artemis OD, a consulting firm in California's Silicon Valley. Heli brings a wealth of knowledge and experience in leadership development, focusing on improving performance and productivity within teams and organizations. Join us as we dive deep into the fascinating world of mindset gaps and the impact they have on behavior. Heli shares practical insights and innovative approaches to help individuals and teams apply their learning, resulting in increased productivity and tangible business outcomes. Stay tuned as we discuss the power of role perception, the challenges of shifting mindsets, and the importance of aligning actions with goals. This episode will leave you inspired to examine your own mindset and unleash your true potential. Let's dive in and start "Making Better" together!
About Heli Nehama Ozery
Heli is the founder and CEO of Artemis OD, an innovative consulting firm based in California's Silicon Valley. Artemis OD focuses on leadership development that heightens performance and productivity. Through her practical and innovative methods, Heli enables teams and individuals to transform learning into actions instantly, driving productivity and tangible business outcomes.
If you want to hear more, you can reach out to Heli on LinkedIn.
Full Transcript
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Heli Nehama Ozery [00:00:00]:
When you address knowledge, right? You just people can just read it, understand it, you know, and just go on with their lives, right? You don't really need to convince anyone of anything you have, like facts or workflow. It's accessible. You don't need to work that hard. The only thing you need to do as an instructoral designer, for example, is make it interesting. But when it comes to mindset or changing people's attitude or something, you can't just explain it. They have to be convinced to go from one mindset to another. Now, in order to do that shift, we need to engage in a discussion. They need to understand why is it good for them? What's the gap? Right? What's the alternative? And then why should they do things differently or look at reality from a different perspective?
Matt Gjertsen [00:00:59]:
Hello, and welcome to the Making Better podcast from Better Everyday Studios, where we focus on making things better, whether that is better individuals, better teams, or better organizations. Whether you're a business owner, a learning development professional, or a manager, this show will give you actionable insights to help improve your own performance and the performance of those around you. It is often said that training can help with three things knowledge, skills or attitudes. And when you're looking at the training industry, I would say that a huge, overwhelming percentage of the training that we do is about knowledge a little bit. The way the place Making or Better Everyday Studios focuses is on changing behavior. But not a lot of people are talking about mindset. And that's why I am so excited for our guest today, heli Nahama Ozeri. I've recently got to meet her through the Talent Development Think Tank community.
Matt Gjertsen [00:01:58]:
She is the founder and CEO of Artemis OD, an innovative consulting firm based in California'silicon Valley. Artemis OD focuses on leadership development that heightens performance and productivity. Through her practical and innovative approach, helly enables teams and individuals to transform learning into action, instantly driving productivity and tangible business outcomes. Before we get into the discussion, I need to remind everybody new to the show to make sure you subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And if you were already subscribed, then I would just love it if you would share this show with at least one other person, because that is how we grow. I can't tell you how much this means to me. So with that, let's get into the conversation. Helly, how are you doing today? Welcome to the making.
Matt Gjertsen [00:02:50]:
Better podcast.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:02:51]:
Thank you so much. So happy to be here. Thanks for having me on.
Matt Gjertsen [00:02:55]:
Yes, I am so excited to be here to have you here. We recently met through the talent development think tank. I've been meeting so many great people there, so it's great to include you as one of the amazing people that I've met. I know a bit about you, but our audience probably doesn't. So that's kind of where I want to start, we talked a little bit about it in the intro and so what I'd love to start with is a question from you. You relatively recently moved from Israel to the US. You had a whole agency in Israel and now you're doing that same kind of job here. What are some of the major differences that you've noticed in that move and kind of what training is in organizations?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:03:42]:
Yeah, so many things to say about it. Yeah, israel is very different in terms of how people are direct in their.
Matt Gjertsen [00:03:54]:
Communication, in that they're more direct.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:03:57]:
They're much more direct, more okay. Yeah. So I had to learn a bit on how to communicate in a bit of a less direct way. I wasn't considered a very direct person in Israel, but apparently in comparison I am. And I think that people are more how do I say it? Opinionated in Israel and are more willing to share their opinion in a very, again, direct way. So talking about facilitating a workshop in Israel, I was able to ask more direct questions. People were more willingly sharing their thoughts, their opinions. And here it's a bit more indirect.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:04:53]:
And when you have a discussion, people don't just jump and want to talk over each other, they have a lot more respect to let you finish what is it it is that you're saying? And then move the tip of the iceberg.
Matt Gjertsen [00:05:12]:
That's just the tip of the iceberg. I wonder it'd be interesting. Do you have any thoughts on where that comes? Mean, I've never been to Israel, so this could be completely not correct. But the first thing that would come to my mind is kind of a difference between more of a multicultural versus monocultural kind of space where you just feel a little bit more comfortable with that directness.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:05:34]:
Yeah, that's an interesting question. I'm not sure why it is. I do know that almost everyone in the country goes and serves the military for two or three years and that has a lot to do with culture and how people communicate. And also it's a very small country with a lot more people than the country can handle. So you really have to be able to articulate whatever it is that you want and if you don't say it assertively enough, you will pay a price for it.
Matt Gjertsen [00:06:15]:
Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Awesome. Well, yeah, I'm sure we could probably have a whole episode, it sounds like, on all the differences that you've seen. But today we wanted to talk or I wanted to talk with you specifically because of the interesting way that you are approaching training development, organizational development, in the sense that I think a lot of times when people hear what can training do? There are three things that you think of. You can help with knowledge, with skills, and with attitude. And probably 90% of LND out there is focused on knowledge, which that's its whole own thing. I myself am big into the skills kind of behavior thing.
Matt Gjertsen [00:06:59]:
I don't know if I've met very many people who are specifically focused on the attitudes or mindsets piece. And I know that's where you're at. So first off, let's start by defining this. You say you are talking about mindsets. What do you mean when you say mindsets?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:07:19]:
Yeah, so when I talk about mindset, first of all, I talk about it in the organizational space. I'm not talking about mindsets in general. And it's not growth mindset versus fixed mindset. It's more of the perception people have over their reality, their beliefs. And these beliefs and perceptions will determine how a person will choose their behavior. So they have those assumptions and expectations around their role or organization and their mindset will determine how they will behave. So when I talk about training, it's not enough to talk about knowledge or skill. I need to make sure that the attitude and the mindset are aligned with everything.
Matt Gjertsen [00:08:09]:
Okay, that makes sense. It's interesting actually. Right before we got on this call, I was working on a newsletter article about mental models and that really sounds kind of like what you're thinking about because mental models are kind of like your perception of how the world works almost that kind of part of it. Does that sound right?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:08:29]:
Yeah, exactly.
Matt Gjertsen [00:08:31]:
Yeah. Okay, so why like we said, everybody's focused on this other stuff. When people think of school, they think of knowledge. Obviously when people think of training, they very often think of like sports. Training is all about behavior. Why did you settle on shaping mindsets? Why did you focus on that?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:08:51]:
Yeah, so I have to say that when I think about mindset, the first thing I think about is that it's something that is changeable. You can change your mindset around something and sometimes your mindset doesn't allow you to achieve your goals. Right, so if I know that mindset can influence behavior and what I want to do when I do training is change people's behaviors, I need to work also on the mindset part. So it's not only focusing on, you know, addressing it in everything that I do. Just like I address knowledge and I address skills. And I do think that here in the US. People and organizations address mindset all the time because you cannot have behavioral change without addressing mindset. We just don't call it mindset.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:09:52]:
We call it education. We put it inside the knowledge part. But it is separate. And when you separate the two and you work with a method to work on mindset that is different than the way you work on skills or knowledge, then you get better results.
Matt Gjertsen [00:10:11]:
Oh, interesting. Okay, so it's not that it's not there. It's just that there is a separate kind of focus of calling it out and doing it differently. What are some of those differences then? That's really interesting. If it's just kind of you have a different framework for addressing mindsets. So what does that look like?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:10:30]:
Yeah. So when you address knowledge, people can just read it, understand it, and just go on with their lives. Right. You don't really need to convince anyone of anything. You have like a fact or workflow it's accessible. You don't need to work that hard. The only thing you need to do as an instructoral designer, for example, is make it interesting so people will want to listen. Right? But when it comes to mindset or changing people's attitude or something, you can't just explain it, right? They have to be convinced to go from one mindset to another.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:11:09]:
Now, in order to do that shift, we need to engage in a discussion. They need to understand why is it good for them, what's the gap? Right? What's the alternative? And then why should they do things differently or look at reality from a different perspective? So you have to engage in a conversation. It has to be some kind of a discussion. Or you can have a very convincing person to convey this message in a very interactive, interesting, inspiring way. And then people can slowly shift their mindset.
Matt Gjertsen [00:11:56]:
And I would imagine just since so often our mindsets are kind of invisible to us, it's that you can't see the water that you're swimming in kind of thing. I would imagine it's just so much more important to be calling it out and having that discussion because people might not even realize where they currently are. They might not know that there is this thing that they currently believe that needs to be changed. And so identifying that existing mindset is probably a big reason why that discussion is required, I would imagine.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:12:32]:
Exactly. And I can give you an example. So I worked with this team of customer service representatives that had a change in their role to become account managers. So their role was becoming more salesy. Now we're talking about high engaged team, highly knowledgeable, highly skilled. They love their organization, they'll love their customers. Like the perfect team ever. But their manager really struggled to get them to be more salesy, to ask more questions.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:13:05]:
And he worked with them for like three months every week. He had a training session where he talked to them about it, but the result did not change. And then I went in, did a short discovery, looked at a few sales calls, and I realized that the gap wasn't knowledge and it wasn't skill. It was a mindset gap. And the mindset gap was that their belief was that selling meant manipulating, and it wasn't. So we did a session where we talked about how we can create a win win situation and how to look at things from the customer's perspective and how they want to look good within their organization for getting the most out of the vendor. And then one of the participants, she told me, you know what? Now I feel like I'm asking questions for us and not only for me. So she had the skills on how to ask those questions.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:14:13]:
It wasn't a problem, but she didn't want to feel like she was manipulating anyone.
Matt Gjertsen [00:14:18]:
Yeah, that's such a great example. Speaking for myself, having relatively recently started my own company, it's a huge shift that you have to make in sales in particular. And I think one of the reasons why in sales there's this talk of good salespeople or the reason why people burn out in sales is because they don't believe in the product, right? Because then they do feel like they are manipulating people. They do feel like they are trying to get people to do something. Whereas if you truly believe in the product, as you say, you're trying to develop these win win situations, I'd be really interested. Using that example or kind of any example you mentioned going in and kind of doing a discovery and an assessment during the discovery phase, what are some indicators that people can look for questions that they can ask or things that it is a mindset thing that is causing the gaps? How do you identify?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:15:20]:
You know, I love working with the KSA model knowledge, skills, and attitude. Bloom is part know Bloom Taxonomy, the three cognitive domains. And I usually am looking for answers for questions, and from the answer the person is giving me, I can tell if it's knowledge, if it's skills, or if it's attitude. For example, if I ask okay, so you're supposed to ask sales questions and understand in a conversation with your customer, what are their needs? Right. So what is it that you do? So I listen to the answer, and then if they tell me, you know, what they told me, I should ask more questions, but I don't want to make the customer feel this or that. I know it's a mindset problem if they tell me they told me I should ask more questions, but I'm not sure where to put the questions and where to place it within the conversation. I know it's a skill problem because they know the questions, but they don't know how to engage with it within a conversation. And if they tell me, you know, what, they told me to ask questions, I'm not sure which questions I should ask.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:16:37]:
That's a knowledge one, right? So when you get skilled enough with this method, you hear very clearly where it's based. And when I teach, I also teach leaders and trained leaders and trainers on how to use it in feedback conversations. So when they're not that skilled, I tell them, okay, you know what? You can create in advance? Knowledge questions, skill questions, and mindset questions. So usually knowledge questions will be a what? Like, what is it? What is it that you need to do to understand the knowledge? And a skill will be a how. Right? How do you do it in a conversation and the mindset part will be a why? Why should you do it? Why do you do it? Right, so you don't really have to use the what, how and why, but that's like the kind of questions you need to ask.
Matt Gjertsen [00:17:33]:
Sure, that totally makes sense. And then when you do have that identification of, you know, it's a beliefs, attitudes, mindsets problem, kind of like we said before, these are often invisible to us. They're sometimes deeply held beliefs, especially I can imagine when you get into anything involving leadership, leadership training, that can be some really deep work. Do you find that organizations or even individuals are hesitant to do that kind of work? It almost starts to sound like therapy and kind of how do you talk them through? I mean, anybody that's been in learning has been in the situation where they're told, oh, we just need a course, right, just give us a course. And it's one thing to push back and say, hey, I want you to we really need some hands on practice with this. We really want to have some back and forth, get people to do it, but to push back and say we need to do some work of how people are viewing the world, that feels like a really big ask. So how do you get people to engage with that?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:18:45]:
That's a great question. I think that a big part of it is my mindset around it?
Matt Gjertsen [00:18:54]:
Sure.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:18:55]:
Because I think that when we talk in the organizational context, it will never be therapy because I'm not interested in people's personality, I'm not interested in the way they acted when they were younger. I don't care. The only thing I care about is their behavior within the organizational context. So I look at the behavior and I see, okay, what's behind this behavior? What is causing this behavior? Because you can have the same person with the same personality in the same role, in different organization, and you will get different behaviors. So it's not about personality, it's about the organizational contexts and what they perceive as their job or role. So you can have gap in your mindset around selling, but in one organization you'll feel comfortable in selling, and in the other we won't. Right. So what I'm interested in is, again, the behavior and the mindset that drove this behavior.
Matt Gjertsen [00:20:03]:
That makes sense.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:20:04]:
That's why it's not that deep of a work. I'm not asking people to change their political views or anything very deep.
Matt Gjertsen [00:20:13]:
Yeah, well, that makes me think then because your company is focused on organizational development, it's not just like it's not employee development, it's not training, it's organizational development. I would imagine, given what you just said, there's a fair amount of times that you find there's a cause of the mindset that's from the organization. Like maybe it's the way pay is structured or whatever that causes that. How often do you find that the mindset work that you're doing in order to cause the mindset change. There's some other structural change that has to happen in the organization, not just in the individual.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:20:56]:
Yeah, it happens a lot. I don't always have control over it, of course, or I don't always address it, but I always see it when it comes from the organizational culture, I definitely see it. And then we can have an interesting discussion on, okay, this is our culture, this is what's happening. What's my circle of influence? How can I deal in this environment and bring my best self and bring my team to be their best self within this context? For example, I work with this organization where everything happens, goes top down and it goes very quickly. You get a word from the CEO and everybody needs to align, although they don't really understand it or agree with it, they just need to align. And I worked with middle managers that got like an email saying, okay, you need to do this. And then they talked to their employees in the same way they got the message. And then we talked about how their job as leaders, their role perception should be, okay, we're the buffer.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:22:08]:
My managers can talk to me in a certain way, but I cannot use the same language with my employees. I need to translate this so they can understand it in a better way. That's part of my role.
Matt Gjertsen [00:22:22]:
Yeah, that makes sense. And even simple things like I know I've worked in organizations that had annual reviews and having you'd be given your annual review of how you did at the same time as you are told if you're getting a raise or not. And so your mindset going into that conversation is of course very fight or flight based. Right. Because it's happening, it's a real thing. And now lots of organizations, for that reason, separate that out so that you can have your performance and feedback discussion. That is where you have a discussion about what you are trying to change, whether what you need to improve. And that is separate and apart from the pay conversation just for that very reason, so you don't trigger that same mindset.
Matt Gjertsen [00:23:15]:
So you can have growth. A learning mindset instead of a kind of like a fear protection mindset.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:23:23]:
Exactly.
Matt Gjertsen [00:23:23]:
Yeah.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:23:24]:
So working in an organization where I have my raise conversation or pay conversation with performance make me as an employee, my mindset understand that I have to do excellent all the time because my salary depends on it. And so I develop this fixed mindset where even if I'm wrong, I can't admit that I'm wrong because then it will hurt my salary versus understanding that what I want to see is a learning curve. I want to see you improve. And I will base your salary on how much you improve from the place you were at.
Matt Gjertsen [00:24:08]:
Yeah, exactly. It's amazing how much power those structural things can have outside of the structure because like you said, we can't always control that really at all, especially from a consulting kind of role. When you are working with individuals, even though you say it's not like super deep work and conversations, it's still more of a conversation than just giving a lecture. And it does really require a back and forth like it requires that other person to be engaged. So what are some of those steps? I mean, I really do think the whole reason why we so often revert to just straight lecture is because it's just the easiest thing to control. You control 100% of the situation. It's the easiest to control, it's the easiest to perform. And then on your end of the spectrum, if you think of knowledge, skills, attitudes, the attitudes and mindsets is probably the most work and the least controlled.
Matt Gjertsen [00:25:13]:
So how do you think through that? How do you create a situation to make sure people will feel comfortable engaging and will engage in that conversation?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:25:23]:
So it really depends on the subject we're talking about. I can give you an example of a training I do for mentors that do onboarding. And the mindset I want to get them into is understanding their role. So we engage in a short conversation about what is the goal of mentoring onboarding, what is the end goal? Right? And I do this video and we discuss it a bit, but at the end of the day, I say, okay, so from what we understand from watching the video and discussion, our goal is to have an independent employee. Now let's see what does that mean? What does it mean to you? What does it mean to have an independent employee? How does it look, how does it feel? And now how does it affect me as the mentor? What does it mean that I need to do differently? So they are independent. So just by thinking and reflecting on that, they understand how they should prioritize everything that they do. So the new hire will have the most experience and will try and do as much as possible on their own. That's a great example on a shift in mindset that I can do in 30 minutes or 20 minutes conversation and it's not deep and it's not personal, and it still changes their mindset.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:26:58]:
And then we always go back to it and say, okay, now we need to do X. Okay? We're not sure whether we should do it like this or like that. Now let's remember what is our goal? Our goal is to have an independent employee. And now when we remember our goal, what is it that we need to choose? And it's very clear what we need to choose. So that's an example of a very light mindset change. An example of a deeper work is around role perception where we try and get everyone aligned in the way they interpret their role, the way they think about it, what they believe their role should be. So I did this session with an executive team where I asked them, if your role was an animal or an object, what would it be? And the CEO said that she would be a shackle holding keys because the role of the leader in the organization is to open doors and help the flow of work. So then we discussed it further because in role perception, I want to understand deeply how this mindset comes to mind and how it affects the way she sees her role.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:28:19]:
And then we talked about it. Why is she the one holding the keys? What does it mean that she is holding all the keys? And we talked about how leaders should be in control versus how much they need to delegate. And it was a very interesting discussion that ended with her having this realization that she can empower her people more by letting go a bit. And that actually, if she wants to empower her leaders, she needs to allow them to open their own keys. And she's not the shackle, she's something else. And then we created this thing that she is or the team is.
Matt Gjertsen [00:29:00]:
Yeah. Just out of curiosity, is most of the work that you do done one on one, or is it group related?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:29:08]:
Mostly group.
Matt Gjertsen [00:29:10]:
Okay. Yeah, I love that example of kind of that role example and the leader holding the keys. You brought that up the last time we were talking and it's interesting reflecting and again, this is coming back to mindsets reflecting on that conversation to this one. It was that example that made me think of this being a pretty big or deep thing, because as soon as I hear that, I'm thinking, oh, where did her view of what a leader is come from and how was it built and how was it reinforced? But hearing you explain it now, it sounds like there's a much more limited focus that you have in this instance. You're not their therapist. You're not trying to have them have a breakthrough or uncover some deep truth about themselves. You just want to change this one thing that's surface level. Maybe they go on and do some more work themselves.
Matt Gjertsen [00:30:11]:
Maybe it triggers some thoughts that they reflect on a whole bunch of other stuff. But that's not what you're trying to do. You have a limited engagement with a limited thing that you are trying to achieve, which both makes it more realistic and it just makes it a lot easier on you, which probably makes it a lot easier on them that you're not bringing this weight to the conversation either.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:30:35]:
Of course not. I have to say I'm very humble in my consulting mindset. I don't think I should change anything. The only thing that I do do is ask questions to make sure that her mindset aligns with the organizational culture, vision, goals, mission because when she said that she was holding the keys, my interpretation of holding the keys is, are you controlling a lot? Are you letting go? But if we engage in this conversation, she might say that in this organization, it's so important to hold the keys. She will have a good explanation for it. And I'll tell her, you know what? That's an amazing aspect of it and keep on holding those keys. It's not that I have an idea of how an ideal leader should behave. I had an amazing conversation with an amazing leader lately, and she told me that she feels like she's kind of a locomotive and she's the one putting all the wood in the fire and she's carrying a lot of the weight.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:31:48]:
And then we talked about it and we realized that in her specific organization, in this specific team right now, this is the right thing for her. She should carry most of the burden right now and reflect all the time. Is it really a good decision right now? Or can she take some of the load and put it on her employees? So there's no right or wrong in leadership or in general that, I think, is a key element of it. Because when we talk about role perceptions or mindset in general, there's no good and bad. It's what will make the most out of what will make me be a better performer within the organization. And I think one of my superpower is finding those mindset gap that I identify and then ask questions about them. And according to those answers, we can decide if it works well or not.
Matt Gjertsen [00:32:51]:
Yeah, it really sounds much more like a coaching engagement where it is all about questions. It's not about providing asking questions and seeing where it goes, seeing where they go with it. Yeah, that makes sense. Awesome. Well, that's really eye opening. I hope listeners have gotten a lot out of this conversation. I've really liked it. I think this is a really it's a very underserved segment of training development, learning development, whatever you want to call it.
Matt Gjertsen [00:33:20]:
And if anybody needs help with this kind of thing. Artemis OD so tell us a little bit more about what you do and the kinds of organizations that you're looking to work with.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:33:33]:
So in artemis OD the main thing I do is work with organizations around leadership development, mentoring programs, and combining everything that has to do with learning and leadership. And I always put a lot of weight on the mindset element of it, no matter what I do. So if it's role perception, which is a pretty new concept to the US. To have team work on their collective mindset and make sure they're all aligned.
Matt Gjertsen [00:34:17]:
Know that alone. That role perception piece when I reflect back, especially at startups that I've worked with and I know you're in kind of the Silicon Valley area, it is one of those things because the. Manager says, I have a need, let's hire. They write half a job description, throw it out there. Having a good understanding of what your role is, is definitely needed in a lot of organizations, I am sure. And I've been on plenty of teams where if you asked five people who all the same role what their role was, they would all give a different answer. So that alone is a great one.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:34:51]:
Yeah. And it's also true for teams that work together forever. It's not only for new teams. I have done it with teams that have been working for 15 years together, but after doing a role perceptions segment, they work a lot differently together.
Matt Gjertsen [00:35:09]:
Sure. Absolutely. Okay, well, to close out, I want to do something different, a little bit different here and ask you a couple of kind of rapid fire questions, if you will. So first off, I, as you can probably tell, am a big book reader. I know not everybody is a book reader, but if you had to pick one, what is one book that you think everyone should read and why?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:35:33]:
So in the L D space, not like a general.
Matt Gjertsen [00:35:37]:
Okay. Okay.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:35:38]:
I would highly recommend Experiential Learning by David Cole. I'm obsessed with his circle of learning model. I use it in every engagement, training or facilitation that I do. It's amazing.
Matt Gjertsen [00:35:58]:
Okay, awesome. I'll add it to the list. I have not read that one. What is the most important skill someone needs to be successful in the work world today?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:36:10]:
So I'm going to go with reflection. I know that not many people see it as a skill, but I see it as a skill that after every interaction you have, you stop, you breathe and you reflect, what did I do good? What should I have done better? But to do it in a non judgmental way where you actually give yourself feedback, just like you would give your best friend feedback. Like, not like, oh, I'm so stupid. No constructive feedback, fact based. And ask yourself, do I have like, knowledge gap, skill gap, attitude gap? What is it that I need to do better next time?
Matt Gjertsen [00:36:52]:
I love that one because I think that reflection piece, too, is being able to do that or doing it frequently is one of the first steps to kind of disassociating yourself from your actions or yourself from your thoughts so that you can more grace not feel like every time you make a mistake. It's the worst thing in the world. Gives you more open mindedness to things. That's a really good one. And then as someone who's worked with a lot of organizations, what is the most common mistake you see organizations make with performance improvement?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:37:29]:
I will have to go with not addressing mindsets, not trying to find where the mindset gaps are and just focusing on knowledge and skills and yeah, that's I think that's a very big mistake organizations do.
Matt Gjertsen [00:37:45]:
I would tend to agree with you. Like I said, that's why I wanted to have you on, because I don't think it is something that many organizations do. So it is awesome helly that you are focusing on that. If people want to get in touch with you, want to hear more from you, where can they go?
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:38:00]:
So they can go to my LinkedIn page and interact from there. That's like the main place right now.
Matt Gjertsen [00:38:10]:
Perfect. Awesome. Well, we'll make sure to link to that in the show notes. So thank you very much. I hope you have a great day, listeners. Thank you for listening and look forward to seeing everybody next time. Have a great day.
Heli Nehama Ozery [00:38:23]:
Thank you.
Matt Gjertsen [00:38:24]:
Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you liked the discussion, make sure to hit like and subscribe so you never miss an episode. As a reminder, if your team is struggling keeping up with the training development demands of your organization, we want to help. Better Everyday Studios is a full service instructional design team that can help you with everything from ideation to actual content creation and delivery. Please reach out to us using the link in the episode notes below. Have a great day. Bye.
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